March 24, 2007

Zenny Carpathea: hello

Jack: hello

Zenny Carpathea: i saw you were having a discussion this morning so i popped in to check it out

Jack: yes

Jack: no one else showed up, but I will very briefly describe it and if you have any questions, ask

Zenny Carpathea: is it regarding web content or sl content?

Jack: so far, mostly an alternative to both, but some Xanadu related projects work on the web

Zenny Carpathea: hmm, ok

Zenny Carpathea: great quote in your profile by Sondergaard, btw:)

Jack: thanks

Jack: on the web, links break often

Jack: and are imbedded in the documents, so can be added only by the author

Jack: in Xanadu, links are stored in external documents, so anyone can add any number of them to any document, there will be link filters and sets to choose from

Jack: and links won't break, because documents will not be deleted

Jack: when changes are needed, a new version is created and linked to all other versions

Jack: any one can create a new version of anything, and use any amounts of any other documents in it

Jack: to publish on Xanadu, you will have to give permission in advance for anyone to quote you anywhere at any length

Jack: and all quotations will link back to the original sources

Jack: documents wil be able to be any type media, text, video, music, speech, or even 3D objects

Jack: content creators can give away what they publish, or charge whatever they want, so everything from the Gutenberg collection to major motion pictures could be included

Jack: links can be typed as well

Jack: zigzag is another concept designed by Ted Nelson

Jack: it is an n-dimensional linking and filtering system, and could be something that might have an application in Second Life

Jack: you can have any number of dimensions, and pick any 3 to view at a time

Jack: so a version, document format, or link set could be chosen

Jack: you could overlay a format onto a document, just like in a paint program

Jack: in all Xanadu text documents, formatting is separate from the content, and combined as needed

Jack: so you could publish the same document for cell phones or giant screens

Jack: make some changes to the content, and republish to both at once

Zenny Carpathea: just processing what you are saying..trying to visualize it..

Zenny Carpathea: so creating libraries of info?

Jack: in a chat, each person could have their comments in separate scrolling windows with visible links to other documents

Jack: yes, and any content could be shown in any type view

Zenny Carpathea: is this being done in sl yet in any format?

Jack: not yet, I am still trying to learn to program

Zenny Carpathea: ok, so in web applications, what examples exist that i could explore?

Jack: mindmaps have some things in common with zigzag, although they are usually static

Jack: I mention several on the hyperworlds website, but token_word is one

Jack: others are now working on a couple of others, but all of them are still in progress

Jack: it's hard to implement these concepts on the web, though

Zenny Carpathea: why is that? where would they be implemented?

Jack: Truth Mapping is one I found recently

Jack: on the Internet, but in custom designed programs

Zenny Carpathea: so i have two applications that i am thinking of: 1 as librarian here in sl.

Jack: one thing about Xanadu is that everything should be editable into new versions by anyone

Zenny Carpathea: and 2 as a homeschool resourse in rl

Zenny Carpathea: can you see this as a way for people to contribute and find info?

Jack: yes

Zenny Carpathea: but it is all still in its infancy?

Jack: the wikipedia has a few things in common with Xanadu, but some real differences also

Jack: yes

Jack: in Xanadu, on contraversial topics, every viewpoint gets equal opportunity for full presentation

Jack: there will be no "official" editorial board

Jack: it will be up to readers and viewers to create their own filters or choose filters created by others they trust

Zenny Carpathea: ah, so if for instance a family wants only Christian or only secular lessons, they could use that filter?

Jack: and also create or find link sets that give structure to the mass of documents

Jack: yes

Zenny Carpathea: sweet

Zenny Carpathea: do you know of anyone doing that yet for education?

Jack: and any amount of any documents in Xanadu could be included without having to ask permission

Jack: no

Zenny Carpathea: but the whole thing is built very gradually by reader input, just like sl was built?

Jack: what is odd is that this was all designed back in the 1960's, but still seems futuristic

Zenny Carpathea: wow

Jack: yes

Jack: SL has much in common as far as user built content

Zenny Carpathea: hmm, an exponential growth rate though

Jack: but imagine if there were more than 3 dimensions to SL, and you could choose any 3

Zenny Carpathea: you kinda blow my mind with the whole dimension thing...

Jack: and also have 3D links to windows of documents containing movies, VR environments, books

Jack: you could walk around inside a book, leave comments, mark it up, chat about it, read what comments others have left

Zenny Carpathea: well, we kinda have those things now, how would it be different?

Zenny Carpathea: i see

Zenny Carpathea: dang

Zenny Carpathea: lol

Jack: you could take anything you see and change it into a new version with changes to suit your taste

Zenny Carpathea: how far out are we from practical, easy application?

Jack: oh, and if something like a movie is sold, you would only pay for the part you watch

Jack: still much work to be done

Jack: I expect it to be built in many small stages

Zenny Carpathea: ok, and to get in on the ground floor of an education application, what would need to be done?

Jack: CMaps is something I also discovered recently

Jack: start by learning the concepts and what has been done so far

Jack: CMaps in mindmaps published on the Internet by many people

Zenny Carpathea: what is mindmaps?

Jack: there are many programs that create them, but they have visible links between nodes containing text, pictures, etc.

Zenny Carpathea: hmm

Jack: in zigzag, the map changes when you focus on a node to show it's links

Jack: so a dynamic map could have billions of links to explore

Zenny Carpathea: it is so new..i need to spend some time exploring examples i think

Jack: and could be reorganized by anyone into submaps

Zenny Carpathea: hmm

Jack: there are some free mindmapping programs

Jack: like Freemind and Compendium

Zenny Carpathea: are these listed on your website?

Jack: yes

Zenny Carpathea: ok, i'll check it out

Jack: nearly everything I have mentioned is there

Jack: but I'm always finding new things

Zenny Carpathea: ok, well, i appreciate the time you have taken to explain this to me. I am glad i came and will explore it further

Jack: OK, thanks for stopping

Zenny Carpathea: :)