[20:51]  Jeffronius Batra: Too late for the Xanadu discussion?

[20:51]  You: no, not at all

[20:52]  Jeffronius Batra: cool. I have a first edition version of Computer Lib / Dream Machines...

[20:52]  You: me too

[20:52]  You: I found it at a used book store for $5

[20:52]  Jeffronius Batra: I followed the Xanadu and Udanax stuff for a while but it always seemed way too complicated

[20:52]  Jeffronius Batra: I bought my book from Ted Nelson at the First West Coast Computer Faire in 1976

[20:53]  You: they are working on a new simplified design

[20:53]  Jeffronius Batra: Wow, I thought that they had given up hope.

[20:53]  You: no, there are still a few people working on it

[20:53]  You: they are re-doing it in Python

[20:54]  Jeffronius Batra: Interesting. Is Ted involved at all?

[20:54]  You: I am trying to learn to program in Rebol

[20:54]  You: yes

[20:54]  You: Ted is at Oxford University in London

[20:54]  You: and still working on it

[20:54]  Jeffronius Batra: Really? I am speaking there in a couple of weeks at the XML Summer School.

[20:55]  You: he said in an email a few days ago that there may be some new software out later this year

[20:55]  You: at Oxford?

[20:55]  Jeffronius Batra: Yes, Oxford.

[20:56]  You: wow, that's great

[20:56]  Jeffronius Batra: http://www.xmlsummerschool.com/

[20:56]  Jeffronius Batra: Yes, it should be fun.

[20:56]  You: you can probably see Ted there then

[20:56]  Jeffronius Batra: I will try my best.

[20:57]  Jeffronius Batra: It is interesting to see how complex ideas like the original Xanadu are simplified until they are actually implementable.

[20:57]  You: I have been reading some database information today

[20:58]  You: some people have extracted some of the ideas from Xanadu to use in database design

[20:58]  Jeffronius Batra: What in particular?

[20:59]  You: at http://lazysoft.com

[20:59]  You: I read about it on the Rebol mailing list

[20:59]  Jeffronius Batra: I will take a look later.

[21:00]  Jeffronius Batra: I do think that 3D virtual stuff like SL provides an even more interesting model for finding and organizing info.

[21:00]  You: I don't know enough of the details yet, just heard of it today, but it is an alternate to relational and object databases

[21:01]  You: yes, there is a lot of data being linked under the surface here

[21:02]  You: It is fascinating to think about what new developments are possible in SL

[21:02]  Jeffronius Batra: Yes, and the fact that other people can be "in" the data at the same time opens the door to some fascinating possibilities

[21:03]  Jeffronius Batra: When I show SL to most people they think it is a game, and won't see past that to the collaborative possibilities.

[21:03]  You: yes, I would love to be able to zoom down to the molecular level or up to the galactic level in VR

[21:04]  Jeffronius Batra: I think we will get there. I was reading about Croquet and it sounds like it could do what you want.

[21:04]  You: yes, there are a lot of things that could be done

[21:05]  Jeffronius Batra: So far I have found that the "older generation" (I'm 46) may be a bit more open to this for some reason. Can't figure out why.

[21:06]  You: I think it may have something to do with wanting to archive the past

[21:07]  Jeffronius Batra: Yes, that could be it. BTW, I see you have an ISS shirt on. Did you watch the Shuttle launch in SL last week? that was wickedly cool.

[21:07]  You: or just seeing the connections between everything in a systematic way

[21:08]  You: no, I was working that day

[21:08]  Jeffronius Batra: It was awesome. I put some photos on my blog at http://www.jeff-barr.com

[21:09]  You: oh wow

[21:10]  You: those pictures are amazing

[21:10]  Jeffronius Batra: It was a very social event.

[21:10]  You: yes

[21:10]  You: going to the Space Museum brought back a lot of memories

[21:10]  You: I used to live in Florida

[21:11]  You: my aunt still has a beach house at Cocoa Beach

[21:11]  You: I saw a moon shot go up from 80 miles away once

[21:11]  Jeffronius Batra: A lot of people at the launch had recollections of Gemini and Mercury, we talked about Tang, Space Food Sticks, etc. It was genuinely fun.

[21:12]  Jeffronius Batra: I watched those moon shots on TV as a kid.

[21:12]  You: 5 minutes later it shook all the windows in the house

[21:12]  Jeffronius Batra: I'll bet. Those Saturn V's were amazing for then, and would still be so now.

[21:12]  You: yes

[21:13]  You: I read about the building of the second stage

[21:13]  You: it was a hurculean effort

[21:14]  Jeffronius Batra: I'm sure. The next generation (Space Ship One, space tourism, etc) will be fascinating to watch.

[21:14]  You: I drew some diagrams the last couple of days comparing Xanadu to wikis

[21:15]  Jeffronius Batra: Are those on your site?

[21:15]  You: yes, I want to see some colonies in space, even a small one

[21:15]  You: yes

[21:16]  Jeffronius Batra: I work at Amazon.com and we use a lot of Wikis, but more for factual data. A lot of what you have there is very accurate, but more applicable to situations like Wikipedia where there are lots of opinions about the same subject, some of which conflict.

[21:16]  You: http://hyperworlds.org/mindmaps/XanaduWiki/FormatEdit.html

[21:16]  Jeffronius Batra: (found it already :-))

[21:18]  You: I think a lot of the concepts in wikis and Xanadu overlap, but there are still some important differences

[21:20]  Jeffronius Batra: having strong identity of authors would be a big step forward for many online collaborative environments.

[21:20]  You: yes, there is so much material that just won't work in a wiki

[21:21]  You: and a lot of what is sold at Amazon would never make it in a wiki

[21:21]  You: so many people need to get paid for their work

[21:22]  You: movies, music, and books

[21:22]  Jeffronius Batra: Agreed, it does pay the bills.

[21:22]  Jeffronius Batra: But some of those creative types could find good homes and earn some L$ inside of SL.

[21:22]  You: when you leave out all their efforts, that limits you a lot

[21:23]  You: yes, some do already

[21:23]  Jeffronius Batra: Performing, selling limited edition artifacts, appearances for hire, etc.

[21:23]  Jeffronius Batra: I was browsing slboutique.com and saw items selling for US$10 and more.

[21:23]  You: I will have to check those out

[21:23]  Jeffronius Batra: They are not all "family friendly"

[21:25]  Jeffronius Batra: Ok, I need to call home and check on my family. This has been fun and I really enjoyed chatting with you!

[21:25]  You: yes, SL does have a certain culture

[21:26]  You: yes, may I publish this chat on the hyperworlds website?

[21:26]  Jeffronius Batra: Sure, be my guest.

[21:26]  You: OK, thanks

[21:26]  Jeffronius Batra: Later...

[21:26]  You: later