Mar 3 2007
StarJunky Fermi: Hi Jack
Jack: hi StarJunky
StarJunky Fermi: brb... more coffee
Jack: me too
Jack: OK, back
StarJunky Fermi: yep, with steaming cuppa joe
Jack: mine's brewing now
Jack: how was your week?
StarJunky Fermi: not bad - worked from home Thurs and Fri due to cubicle farm rebuild at work
StarJunky Fermi: could get used to full time telework
Jack: me too
Jack: that's one of my goals
Jack: I have been studying Cinema 4D again, an animation program I have
Jack: it takes a few months to get back up to speed on a program like that
StarJunky Fermi: cool - I've not done much with 3d tools outside of SL
StarJunky Fermi: toyed with Google's 3d breifly
StarJunky Fermi: I bet
StarJunky Fermi: did you have a chance to look at the Sci Am MyLifeBits article?
Jack: Is that for Google Earth?
Jack: I might try doing a bit more archiving too
StarJunky Fermi: Google Sketchup
Jack: there's a web browser that saves all the pages it visits
StarJunky Fermi: Yeah - I'd like all my paper docs scanned and searchable too
StarJunky Fermi: but then the problem is organizing all that stuff
StarJunky Fermi: could be where ZigZag comes in, no?
StarJunky Fermi: I've been researching and experimenting with the zigzag data structure concept
StarJunky Fermi: very powerful
Jack: have you looked at Sentences?
StarJunky Fermi: heard about it, but not checked it out? what's it do?
Jack: I'll try out Google Sketchup
Jack: it's a database that uses some of the zigzag concepts
StarJunky Fermi: ahh google just found your hyperlworlds link to it
Jack: for instance, if only one record out of a million needs a particular field, you don't have to add it to the other 999,999
StarJunky Fermi: oh yeah - I had come across the Lazy Soft site before
StarJunky Fermi: yes - an efficient multi dimensional, sparse data strucure
Jack: yes, I have just used it a little, but it looks really useful
StarJunky Fermi: Lazy Soft reminds me of a "universal" database datamodel some
StarJunky Fermi: radicals at my company built a content mgmt system on
StarJunky Fermi: I think zigzag is better tho
StarJunky Fermi: they applied for a data model patent - doubt they will get it
Jack: I just recently found the truthmapping website, it's a little like Compendium, but more structured
StarJunky Fermi: do the Lazy Soft credit Nelson and /or Xanadu?
Jack: not bad for a web application
Jack: yes, they do
StarJunky Fermi: checking out truthmapping now...
Jack: I will have to brush up on my logic to get some arguments ready for it
Jack: it looks better for simpler logic problems than Compendium, which seems more suited to "wicked" problems
StarJunky Fermi: interesting that they allow likelihood probablities - could lead to Bayesian analysis?
Jack: next time I go to the philosophy cafe here, I will mention it
Jack: are likelihood probabilities just guesses, or are there criteria than can be added up to generate them?
StarJunky Fermi: do you attend philosophy cafe meetings often, Jack?
Jack: just started recently, they have them every week across from Texas Tech
StarJunky Fermi: I think they are just guesses for any non-composite premise, but composite premises liklihood can be computed from Bayes theorem
StarJunky Fermi: speaking of Tech, I actually grew up in Lubbock
StarJunky Fermi: small world, eh?
Jack: I've been here for about 20 years
StarJunky Fermi: I thought you meant SL philo cafe
StarJunky Fermi: my folks and a couple of siblings still the Home of Buddy Holly :)
StarJunky Fermi: still live in*
Jack: I hope they get chat bounding boxes in SL soon
Jack: that's neat
StarJunky Fermi: not familiar - what is it?
Jack: it's something that could come in handy in a coffee shop in SL, where chat boundaries could be confined to a small area, one table for instance
StarJunky Fermi: kinda like a private chat channel, but distance limited?
StarJunky Fermi: cool
Melon Beck: so what is xanadu.... interested coz I just beat myself up switching from html to xhtml/style sheets.
Jack: it would also be great for apartment buildings and arcologies
StarJunky Fermi: have the Linden's mentioned it being on the SL roadmap
StarJunky Fermi: Melon, Jack is the Xanadu expert - I'll let him field your question
Jack: it's been discussed on the forums for a long time
Jack: it's an advanced hypertext concept
Jack: where the formatting, links, etc. is not embedded into the text, but only combined as needed
Jack: so you can have multiple link and format sets
Melon Beck: so its non structured?
Jack: also, all published versions of a document stay online, partly to prevent broken links
Jack: it can be as structured as needed
Melon Beck: hmm I'm interested in learning new concepts from a graphics design point of view.. getting frustrated with limitations of css/browser.
Jack: links are bi-directional, so if A links to B, then B is automatically linked to A
Melon Beck: hmm so links just follow thru hmmm
Jack: yes, the whole web way of doing things is primitive to anyone who has experience with other hypertext systems
Melon Beck: /
Melon Beck: well just sitting here.. sort of proves that as well
Jack: it's successful primarily because it was first on the Internet
Melon Beck: my only concern/wish is that any tools or languages need to be more transparent.. more like just picking up a pen and paper.. perhaps.. and being able to not have to learn code or a god awful interface to express yourself will xanudu adress that?
Jack: I have used CSS some, but it has problems, especially when used for positioning
Melon Beck: or does rather
Melon Beck has scars on forehead from using css
Melon Beck: /from beating head on keyboard
StarJunky Fermi: heh
Melon Beck: but css does address interoperability to some extent
StarJunky Fermi too
Jack: Xanadu will allow for many interfaces, created for various needs
Jack: so it could be as simple as using a text editor, or as complex as Maple, TEX, or Mathematica; and that's just for text
Jack: any media would be included eventually
Jack: or it's concepts implemented in a 3D environment, like SL
Melon Beck: well I think we're perhaps one more generation of hardware/mem storage away from the next explosion.. sec life type interfaces will evolve... and grow and become the standard..
Melon Beck: afk for a sec googling xanudu
Jack: yes, as more types of documents become accessible in 3D environments, they will become more popular
StarJunky Fermi: Melon, Jack has a great site for hypermedia research at http://hyperworlds.org/
StarJunky Fermi: brb.. biobreak
Jack: another concept of Xanadu is called transclusion
Melon Beck: back
Melon Beck: what is transclusion?
Jack: it is similar to copying, but when anything is quoted in another document, it will link back to the original context
Melon Beck: so automatically linking without having to code one?
Jack: and before publishing in Xanadu, authors will give advance permission to anyone to quote to any length in any context
Melon Beck: omg this is going to give the copywrite lawyers breakdowns.. lmao
Jack: yes, when you copy and paste in Xanadu, a link to the source is created
Jack: content can be either free or sold incrementally
Melon Beck: hmmm so you could set up micropayments much like linden dollars.. cool
Jack: If I create a magazine containing dozens of articles, those that cost will be bought by each reader at the time they read them
Jack: yes, micropayments will be for very small amounts, so something could be sold for a fraction of a cent, if you want
Melon Beck: again much like linden ex...
Jack: yes, the Linden payment system is quite sophisticated
Melon Beck: hmmm is there much interest in using xanudu in the community at large then?
Jack: if the Xanadu transclusion system was implemented here, objects could be taken apart and any part reused in other 3D creations and sold, with parts of the sale going to each contributor
Jack: Xanadu was originally designed in the 1960's, with several attempts to implement it
Jack: there are several new projects ongoing, but progress is slow
Jack: I think as newer and better tools and languages are created, more of the Xanadu ideas will show up
Jack: there are many programs that have some of the Xanadu ideas in them
Melon Beck: interesting..
Jack: I link to them as I find them on the hyperworlds website
Melon Beck: well I now have a ton of stuff to read.. got to head out now.. thanks for making my head hurt some more jack.....lol
Melon Beck: nice to meet you.
Jack: any time
Melon Beck: /ao on
Jack: good to meet you too
Jack: have you read "The Wisdom of Crowds"?
StarJunky Fermi: I'm watching the gzz demo videos Jack
StarJunky Fermi: nope
StarJunky Fermi: is it good?
Jack: yes, a lot of good things in it
StarJunky Fermi: I'll put on my book list
Jack: it mentions Bayes theorem
StarJunky Fermi: yeah - I keep stumbling across Bayes these days
Jack: I'm sort of mathematically deprived, but trying to remedy that on my own
StarJunky Fermi: Spam filters, autonomous robotic vehicles, etc
StarJunky Fermi: Bayes theorem is diffiucult to understand
Jack: SL would be a good testing ground for robots
StarJunky Fermi: conditional probabibilties are tough
Jack: spam filtering has got to be a hard problem
StarJunky Fermi: yeah - SL could be useful for robot prototyping
Jack: I wish I could just trust my spam filter completely, but there are still enough holes in it that I have to scan all the subject lines before deleting
Jack: once I learn some more math, I'm sure there will be lots of uses for it in animation and 3D environments
StarJunky Fermi: undoubtedly - I expermented with a 3D function graphing program back in college
Jack: I just wish that when I was in school, that we had good math software
StarJunky Fermi: the math can get pretty hairy
StarJunky Fermi: slide rule days, eh?
Jack: I have Maple, but still need to learn more before I can really use it much
Jack: I like taking the math history approach to studying math
Jack: I just need more hours in the day
StarJunky Fermi: yep - so do I
Jack: I'm studying Cinema 4D and programming now
StarJunky Fermi: yeah - how's the Python coming along?
Jack: making slow progress
StarJunky Fermi: do you find the VLC or whatever the video tutorial service you use helpful?
Jack: there are a lot of gaps yet to fill in
StarJunky Fermi: yeah, VTC
Jack: they don't have Python yet
Jack: so I'm using Safari bookshelf
Jack: they just recently added 75 video courses, so I started the one on Cinema 4D a couple of days ago
StarJunky Fermi: that just reminded me of a useful Firefox plugin - heard of Stumble?
Jack: yes, I have it added but haven't used it recently
Jack: I also added the Hyperwords plugin
StarJunky Fermi: a good example of "wisdom of crowds" maybe?
Jack: and use it sometimes
StarJunky Fermi: not familiar with hyperwords?
Jack: I will have another look at it
Jack: it does many kinds of look-ups on selections in the browser
Jack: like Google, Wikipedia, dictionary, etc.
StarJunky Fermi: nice!
StarJunky Fermi: well - I've enjoyed it, but gotta go
StarJunky Fermi: its a beautiful day in Houston, time to go out and play
Jack: it would be handy to have definitions pop up in small windows
Jack: OK, have a good day
StarJunky Fermi: you too
Jack: thanks for coming
StarJunky Fermi: you bet, always enjoy it
Jack: I may go fishing before work
StarJunky Fermi: can't believe I had not friended you sooner - musta thought I already had!
StarJunky Fermi: ok - good luck
Jack: no problem