Earadriede Callisto: hi there

Ramses Prinz: hi

Jack Sondergaard: hello

Sine Tone: Hi

Sine Tone: Is the gravity a little odd or something?

Jack Sondergaard: it might be, we are underwater

Sine Tone: Could be my client, I'm on Linux...

Earadriede Callisto: :)

Jack Sondergaard: I have another computer that I recently put Ubuntu on, but haven't tried SL on it yet

Sine Tone: There's some weird texture glitching on the floor...

Sine Tone: I've not been able to get the ATI proprietary drivers to work, so my frame rate is pretty poor.

Earadriede Callisto: is it constant glitching?

Sine Tone: It glitches when I look around.

Jack Sondergaard: yes, I need to tweak that

Sine Tone: Hopefully Apple will release 10.5 soon and I can get a new Mac and use that instead...

Jack Sondergaard: yes, I am looking forward to getting Leopard, I just hope I can run it

Sine Tone: I'm due for a new machine, I'm still on an 800MHz G4 iMac.

Earadriede Callisto: wow

Sine Tone: But I'm gonna wait for Leopard, and hopefully LED backlit MacBooks.

Sine Tone: I'm a cheapskate, I only upgrade computers every 4 years or so.

Sine Tone: My main computer was a PowerBook 100 for 7 years!

Jack Sondergaard: yes, I would like to get a dual-core notebook

Sine Tone: The nice thing is, when I finally upgrade, the speed always blows me away :-)

Earadriede Callisto: :)

Jack Sondergaard: that is about how often I usually upgrade

Sine Tone: So this is my work ThinkPad, but IBM said I should try Second Life, so...

Sine Tone: Expecting many people? It's kind of a specialist topic.

Jack Sondergaard: I went to an IBM event in SL a few days ago

Earadriede Callisto: o how did it go?

Jack Sondergaard: we usually have just one or 2 here, I don't think a lot of people know about Xanadu

Sine Tone: Yes, it's sad, Ted doesn't get the recognition he should.

Jack Sondergaard: It was very interesting, they had slides, a live audio feed

Earadriede Callisto: what was the discussion about?

Jack Sondergaard: an overview of IBM's involvement in SL

Sine Tone: I was quite surprised by the scope of it. Nice big campus.

Jack Sondergaard: I was surprised to find out how many people were involved

Sine Tone: Some good ideas too, business data visualization.

Earadriede Callisto: i have to visit there. so far i've only been to cisco

Sine Tone wonders if Apple is in Second Life

Jack Sondergaard: I haven't seen an Apple store here yet, but the Circuit City one had iPods on display

Earadriede Callisto: I don't think Apple Inc moved here yet

Sine Tone: Circuit City?!

Earadriede Callisto: but i have a landmark on Apple store here..

Jack Sondergaard: I thought it was interesting that the speaker from IBM said that 6 months ago, he would not have thought it possible to have a VR type store

Jack Sondergaard: I wrote about such a thing about 15 years ago

Sine Tone: He obviously doesn't buy from apple.com then!

Sine Tone: QTVR pictures of Apple products started, what, in the late 80s?

Jack Sondergaard: I think so

Sine Tone: Hey, do you know if Ted Nelson has visited SL?

Earadriede Callisto: so is there any further development on Xanadu? I've been to just one meeting last year.

Jack Sondergaard: not that I know of

Sine Tone: I tried to get back in contact with Ted because I noticed that Computer Lib was selling for obscene amounts of money on amazon.

Sine Tone: I wanted to propose a free web version.

Jack Sondergaard: there is a relatively new project, but I haven't seen code for it yet

Sine Tone: At least untl Xanadu is ready :-)

Jack Sondergaard: I have a first edition I found in a used bookstore for $5

Sine Tone: Wow!

Sine Tone: I think it would be really cool to have a fully hypertext version, with wiki facilities for on-page commentary.

Jack Sondergaard: yes, that would be nice to have it in some form of hypertext

Earadriede Callisto: i agree

Jack Sondergaard: about 15 years ago, when I was a security guard at ToysRUs, I imagined a VR store where you could walk around, pick up the things on the shelves, read the manuals, take things apart, go all the way down to the subatomic level if you wanted, or zoom out and explore galaxies

Sine Tone: It was always the galaxies that interested me.

Jack Sondergaard: so I think SL has a long way to go yet

Earadriede Callisto: ooo that would be cool

Sine Tone: When I saw "Starry Night" at a Mac show, I literally cried. My dream had finally been realized.

Earadriede Callisto: actually i saw something like that..not exact..but similar so to speak... invented by the japanese.. you wear computer sunglasses (regular glasses as well) and

Earadriede Callisto: as you walk through a department store.. you can basically get data from the stores surrounding you

Jack Sondergaard: I haven't heard of Starry Night

Earadriede Callisto: like the prices and items

Sine Tone: starrynight.com

Jack Sondergaard: yes, that would be helpful for both the shoppers and employees

Earadriede Callisto: what is starry night?

Sine Tone: There are free packages like it for Linux, but Starry Night has a much nicer interface.

Sine Tone: You can basically view any part of the universe that we know of, fly around, change magnification...

Sine Tone: Change how fast time flows, change the date...

Jack Sondergaard: I used some 3D glasses on an Amiga at a show back about 1987, I think

Sine Tone: Watch the moons of Saturn from its rings, for instance.

Sine Tone: Or follow behind comet Hale-Bopp as it visits the solar system.

Jack Sondergaard: oh yes, I think I used a program like that one time, I had forgotten about it

Jack Sondergaard: but I don't think it was that advanced

Jack Sondergaard: it was like a view of the stars from Earth at any time

Earadriede Callisto: nice

Earadriede Callisto: the price is nice as well :/

Sine Tone: Like I said, there are free alternatives if you don't mind a user-hostile interface.

Jack Sondergaard: personally, I am looking forward to see a merging of Google Earth and Second Life

Sine Tone: e.g. 


Earadriede Callisto: oh yeah i use celestial

Earadriede Callisto: google earth and SL.. but.. wouldn't that be similar to the map we have now?

Jack Sondergaard: yes, in a way

Jack Sondergaard: but as SL gets bigger, imagine that as you fly up, you can still see the whole of SL from a distance, like a planet

Jack Sondergaard: or Google Earth, with SL style 3D exploration of the real world places

Earadriede Callisto: ooo ok ok i get it

Jack Sondergaard: the possibilities for collaborative work would be great

Sine Tone: There's still the content creation problem. I really want a nice link from SketchUp to SL.

Jack Sondergaard: especially if any computer screen in that environment could be viewed by all

Earadriede Callisto: yep. but considering every update SL break new stuff... that collaboration will be a bit farfetched

Earadriede Callisto: SL = Linden

Jack Sondergaard: as advanced as the code is, I expect there to be a lot of bumps along the way

Earadriede Callisto: yeah. so the program would be within SL or on the web just like google earth?

Jack Sondergaard: there will probably be some special purpose spinoffs from SL, for businesses, for example

Earadriede Callisto: err application

Sine Tone: Yeah, I can imagine IBM wanting to run their own SL environment...

Sine Tone: And provide On Demand SL services to customers.

Jack Sondergaard: SL is a user created world, but you could also have one patterned after Earth, or even a playground for mathematicians

Earadriede Callisto: yeah

Sine Tone: I wonder if anyone has created a klein bottle in SL?

Sine Tone: Or a Mobius strip... though gravity would be a problem there.

Jack Sondergaard: I would really like to see some topological n-dimensional animations here

Sine Tone: I was also thinking it would be cool to reproduce scenes from MC Escher.

Jack Sondergaard: there was a movie at WaldenSoftare once called Only Zooms, with animated 3D fractals

Jack Sondergaard: yes, I thought about Escher too, that would be fun

Jack Sondergaard: just need some scripting to let you walk upside down

Earadriede Callisto: yep

Earadriede Callisto: and fall down in a no-script zone :)

Jack Sondergaard: there's a reason Timothy Leary got into compters

Jack Sondergaard: computers

Jack Sondergaard: shared hallucinations

Jack Sondergaard: sometimes SL seems like a shared dream

Earadriede Callisto: how so?

Jack Sondergaard: like the times I have sat watching old movies with people from all over the world making comments during the movie, in real-time

Earadriede Callisto: ah

Jack Sondergaard: or chatting with people from half a dozen countries all at once

Earadriede Callisto: yes

Earadriede Callisto: SL is a powerful tool in education sector...especially for distance learning

Jack Sondergaard: or flying my helicopter to the space stations above Nexus Prime, or visiting the Space Museum

Jack Sondergaard: yes, I am learning some math, and would love to have the tools in SL to collaborate with others doing the same

Jack Sondergaard: math software and history/biography is fascinating

Earadriede Callisto: i've already given my ideas to the owner of glidden campus. she and I got pretty much the same idea on how to use SL for education.

Jack Sondergaard: I never had a good math teacher, so I am trying to make up for that lack

Earadriede Callisto: :)

Jack Sondergaard: it would be nice to be able to use Mathematica, Maple, or Graphic Calculator in SL

Earadriede Callisto: she brought in a group of students from her school to visit the campus the other day. it's fascinating to see how the students interact. most of them never heard of SL. they're excited because it's like a computer game

Jack Sondergaard: just need to be able to share your computer screen

Earadriede Callisto: true

Earadriede Callisto: actually i've met another educator who actually want voice application installed.. so they can just use the audio instead of typing

Earadriede Callisto: i'm not sure how it can be achieved

Jack Sondergaard: yes, they were doing that at the IBM meeting

Sine Tone: Yeah, my general feeling is that SL is IRC with 3D graphics...

Sine Tone: It may become more though.

Earadriede Callisto: IBM wanted voice application?

Jack Sondergaard: yes, I am sure it will

Earadriede Callisto: i agree Sine.. irc 3d..

Jack Sondergaard: yes, at the IBM they had live audio feed from a meeting

Jack Sondergaard: so there was the real audience and the SL audience

Earadriede Callisto: ok. but what the educator want is like.. skype.

Earadriede Callisto: so basically in this meeting we'll be talking to each other using audio instead of typing.

Jack Sondergaard: yes, I have heard of people using Skype and SL at the same time, in fact I was at a podcast that was doing that once

Sine Tone: Of course, then you have to deal with people with unintelligible accents.

Sine Tone: There's a certain benefit to text.

Earadriede Callisto: yeah. the educator want that type of voice application within SL... which would be hard to do.

Earadriede Callisto: lol sine yes

Jack Sondergaard: I have heard rumors of SL getting audio

Sine Tone: Also, people who are in SL via a noisy cafe.

Earadriede Callisto: but how would they cope with the boundary sim thing?

Earadriede Callisto: true sine

Jack Sondergaard: as far as cafes are concerned , you would need boundary boxes to localize the sound

Jack Sondergaard: same goes for text chatting

Jack Sondergaard: so each table would be private

Earadriede Callisto: ic

Earadriede Callisto: we also got a problem with bandwidth for audio

Sine Tone: Welcome back.

Earadriede Callisto: i was under the ground... for some reason..

Jack Sondergaard: there seems to have been some problems

Jack Sondergaard: I wasn't seeing any chat

Sine Tone: The Curse of Xanadu!

Earadriede Callisto: lol ok..

Jack Sondergaard: ha

Jack Sondergaard: one of the things I remember hearing at the IBM meeting was that IBM was competing with the airlines

Earadriede Callisto: which airlines?

Sine Tone: The food in the IBM canteens is pretty bad, yeah...

Jack Sondergaard: good collaborative software will certainly replace a lot of flying

Sine Tone: Just as well, the era of cheap air flight is coming to an end.

Jack Sondergaard: anyway I can fly in SL

Sine Tone: I just had an idea... Someone should set up a satirical Second Life TSA.

Jack Sondergaard: I was watching the geese at the lake the other day, and wondering, why can't I do that

Sine Tone: With a place where people can queue up to be searched.

Jack Sondergaard: what is TSA?

Sine Tone: The US federal government agency in charge of airport security.

Jack Sondergaard: Oh, that would be a hoot

Earadriede Callisto: :D

Sine Tone: You could have SL metal detectors with conveyor belts.

Jack Sondergaard: I have a 4 passenger helicopter

Sine Tone: Put your objects on the conveyor and pick them up at the other side.

Jack Sondergaard: but every time I hit a banned property, I crash

Sine Tone: Yeah, that happened with my UFO.

Jack Sondergaard: and have to start back here

Sine Tone: I'm not sure where it is now.

Earadriede Callisto: ouch

Earadriede Callisto: lol

Earadriede Callisto: it doesn't get returned

Sine Tone: Oh, wait, my UFO is back in my item list.

Jack Sondergaard: most places return crashed aircraft

Earadriede Callisto: there you go

Jack Sondergaard: I want in-flight movies, and a laptop computer on a SL airliner

Sine Tone: I heard about people who play flight simulators on their laptops while on actual planes.

Sine Tone: They try to reproduce the same journey.

Jack Sondergaard: oh wow

Sine Tone: There was also an amazing picture in Popular Science of a guy who had reproduced most of an airplane cockpit in his house for flight sim purposes.

Jack Sondergaard: that is almost surreal

Sine Tone: Spent about $20,000 on it.

Jack Sondergaard: wow

Jack Sondergaard: that must have been quite a simulator

Jack Sondergaard: at the science museum here, they had a mockup of a Mars mission, I got to put on a space suit and walk around on Mars

Jack Sondergaard: I want to have a doll house in SL and be able to shrink myself and go inside

Earadriede Callisto: oooo that's cool

Jack Sondergaard: and have a doll house in the doll house...

Sine Tone: 


Sine Tone: There you go. Guy's building an entire 747 simulator.

Earadriede Callisto: that's deep

Sine Tone: People go to amazing lengths to create simulated reality.

Sine Tone: I'm actually something of a skeptic. I think actual reality has a richness we're still way beyond any hope of reproducing.

Jack Sondergaard: yes, I am into model railroading, and some of the things I have seen are so real looking

Earadriede Callisto: true sine

Sine Tone: It depresses me that so much of SL is reproducing dull everyday stuff like shopping malls.

Earadriede Callisto: well they want profit..

Sine Tone: I mean, you give people a world where they can create anything they imagine, and they build a shopping mall and a nightclub.

Sine Tone: And endless crappy casinos.

Jack Sondergaard: as I experience more simulated reality, it does give me a greater appreation of reality, how real it looks

Jack Sondergaard: hires, no lag, reality is cool

Sine Tone: I find that every now and again I'll become aware of some aspect of reality that I'd been ignoring for so long.

Earadriede Callisto: true jack

Sine Tone: Squirrels are the latest. It's funny how you can see something thousands of times and never really think about it.

Sine Tone: And then suddenly you realize how many interesting details there really are.

Sine Tone: Also, AC outlets.

Flypill: All Go

Jack Sondergaard: yes, I have some aquariums with quite natural scenes in them

Earadriede Callisto: why is that girl keep dropping in and out

Jack Sondergaard: a whole ecosystem in 10 gallons, they require very little maintenance

Sine Tone: It's interesting how types of lichen suddenly look like trees viewed from the air, if next to a model house.

Jack Sondergaard: club nearby

Earadriede Callisto: they fall in here?

Sine Tone: Have you seen tilt-shift photography?

Earadriede Callisto: what's that?

Flypill: All Go

Jack Sondergaard: I make model trees, it takes about a week and is about a 20 step process, the results are very realistic

Earadriede Callisto: scripted? and it sways?

Sine Tone: A tilt-shift lens is a special kind of camera lens that lets you alter the geometry with respect to the sensor.

Sine Tone: You can control the depth of field at different parts of the scene.

Earadriede Callisto: ooo interesting. i have to look it up

Sine Tone: The interesting thing is, if you use it on real scenes, you can make them look like macro shots of models.

Jack Sondergaard: wow, that's neat

Sine Tone: 


Earadriede Callisto: wow.. that's coool

Sine Tone: Try 


 for examples

Sine Tone: e.g. 


Sine Tone: The real buses look like tiny models.

Earadriede Callisto: that's cool

Jack Sondergaard: that would be interesting to make movies with those lenses

Sine Tone: Did someone order a rave bunny?

Sine Tone: Guess not.

Earadriede Callisto: rave bunny?

Sine Tone: Never mind.

Jack Sondergaard: sometimes visitors drop in and out

Sine Tone: I kinda thought being underwater might keep the riff-raff out.

Earadriede Callisto: the roof is not phantom?

Jack Sondergaard: after I moved here a club opened next door

Jack Sondergaard: the roof is phantomed

Sine Tone: And there goes the neighborhood...

Earadriede Callisto: they can still fall straight through?

Jack Sondergaard: yes

Earadriede Callisto: oh.. i thought phantom would have prevented that

Jack Sondergaard: no

Jack Sondergaard: anyway back to the library

Jack Sondergaard: if all the books I had were hypertext, I could look up math symbols fast, check out footnotes and bibliographical references

Earadriede Callisto: yes

Sine Tone: I just dicovered gotapi.com. Awesome for programmers.

Jack Sondergaard: add annotations, see other people's annotations

Sine Tone: I'm also hoping the Sony Reader will be followed up by less limited versions.

Jack Sondergaard: yes

Jack Sondergaard: I'm on the lookout for a retinal scanner

Jack Sondergaard: just use my eyes as 3D projection rooms

Jack Sondergaard: I am surprised 3D movies are still so rare

Earadriede Callisto: yeah

Sine Tone: They might stop being rare with digital taking over.

Sine Tone: Right now the problem is the doubling of film costs...

Jack Sondergaard: I was one at Disney World about 30 years ago

Jack Sondergaard: it was completely real looking

Jack Sondergaard: an animal on the screen came out

Jack Sondergaard: I held out my hand, it looked like it was sitting on it

Earadriede Callisto: well right now there's a new 3d attraction at disney called mickey's philarmagic

Jack Sondergaard: it was using dual polarized projectors

Jack Sondergaard: and you wore glasses with the lenses shifted 90 degrees

Jack Sondergaard: so each eye saw a different image

Jack Sondergaard: but it was full color

Earadriede Callisto: this was 30 years ago?

Jack Sondergaard: yes, about then

Earadriede Callisto: nice i didn't know they use 3d 30 years ago...

Jack Sondergaard: yes, it was surprising

Jack Sondergaard: but I have only seen one similar theatre since then

Earadriede Callisto: ic

Earadriede Callisto: well i don't think they will make 3d movies for regular movies we see in the movie theater just yet..

Jack Sondergaard: yes, I think it just economics that stopping it, not technology

Earadriede Callisto: but that would be cool to see. or...how about virtual movie...so you can immerse yourself in the environment.

Jack Sondergaard: yes, just like SL

Earadriede Callisto: oh yeah i totally agree on that

Jack Sondergaard: I expect to see movement sensors linking our movements into the VR environment

Earadriede Callisto: yeah

Jack Sondergaard: so you would see me eating corn chips right now

Jack Sondergaard: of course there are some people you might want to avoid

Earadriede Callisto: lol

Earadriede Callisto: so true

Sine Tone: Speaking of food, I have to get some lunch...

Jack Sondergaard: but the multi-layered events in SL are impressive, lots of database activity making it possible

Jack Sondergaard: I better get some more rest too, before work

Earadriede Callisto: yeah i agree

Jack Sondergaard: well, thanks for coming, see you next time

Earadriede Callisto: see you sine. have a good lunch