Jack Sondergaard: hi Patrick
Jack Sondergaard: hi Lyzzy
Lyzzy Acronym: hi there
Jack Sondergaard: are you here for the discussion?
Lyzzy Acronym: yep
Jack Sondergaard: good
Lyzzy Acronym: But I dont know too much about the subject
Lyzzy Acronym: I'm just curious..
Jack Sondergaard: that's OK
Lyzzy Acronym: ok then
Jack Sondergaard: Xanadu was originally designed in the early 1960's
Jack Sondergaard: one of the key features is that links are unbreakable and 2-way
Lyzzy Acronym: that means, I can't get a 404?
Jack Sondergaard: yes
Jack Sondergaard: that means if I write something and someone else comments on it later somewhere, their comment is automatically linked from my original document
Jack Sondergaard: links are also span to span, not just from a point to a document or point
Jack Sondergaard: and they can visibly link several open documents
Lyzzy Acronym: I see...at least I think I do..
Jack Sondergaard: since there could be so many links on a page, there would need to be good filters
Jack Sondergaard: and links could be typed, so you could view just one set of links at a time
Jack Sondergaard: instead of being imbedded inside a document, they would be stored separately and could be updated and added to independently of the document
Lyzzy Acronym: hm..ok...
Lyzzy Acronym: But please give me some example..
Jack Sondergaard: there could be links of correction, agreement, reference, definitions, etc.
Lyzzy Acronym: Hm.....On an server that is. So its viewable remotely?
Jack Sondergaard: yes, it would run as a type of database on a server
Jack Sondergaard: and then there would be various kinds of programs that would access the servers
Jack Sondergaard: hi DBS
Lyzzy Acronym: ah, I see..so you would need the filters to block referencing adsites..
Jack Sondergaard: another thing about documents is that each document would have an unchageable address of it's own
Jack Sondergaard: yes, you could filter everything to suit you
Lyzzy Acronym: hm..ok. About this address...
Lyzzy Acronym: How would it work in practice?
Jack Sondergaard: web addresses now have a numerical address
Jack Sondergaard: of 4 numbers separated by dots
Jack Sondergaard: each number can be up to 255
Jack Sondergaard: in Xanadu, there would be more than 4 numbers
Lyzzy Acronym: its called an IP-Address, right?
Jack Sondergaard: and each one could be any desired length
Jack Sondergaard: yes
Jack Sondergaard: so one of the numbers could be the author number, and then a document number, version and subversion numbers, and format number
Jack Sondergaard: in a link, it would refer to the beginning and ending documents, and the spans in each that are linked
Lyzzy Acronym: I see...
Jack Sondergaard: for it to work right, everything would need to be encrypted and authenticated
Jack Sondergaard: so things like movies, books, and music now kept off the web could safely be sold
Lyzzy Acronym: hm...
Jack Sondergaard: and buyers would only pay for the parts they actually read, listened to, or watched
Lyzzy Acronym: uhm..wait a second
Jack Sondergaard: but content could still be free too
Lyzzy Acronym: That's already true for now, isn't it?
Jack Sondergaard: it would be up to the creator of the content to decide if it would be free or sold, and at what cost
Lyzzy Acronym: Well, they are doing that now too
Lyzzy Acronym: you can register for a price and then buy stuff or rent it
Jack Sondergaard: yes, in some ways, but there is no simple consistant way to give away or sell (at the seller's chosen price) spans of any media type
Lyzzy Acronym: mhm
Lyzzy Acronym: yes. But the main problem for vendors is, that it gets pirated, right?
Jack Sondergaard: so if you start to watch a movie, and only watch 10 minutes of it, you wouldn't be charged for the whole thing
Lyzzy Acronym: you can do that now too
Lyzzy Acronym: But they are afraid, that you copy it to your harddrive instead of watching it...
Jack Sondergaard: yes, that's why so much is kept off the web and sold only in stores, the producers of it don't want it pirated
Lyzzy Acronym: But producers can't stop pirating with xanadu - or can they?
Jack Sondergaard: iTunes has it partly right, content is protected, you can also get free podcasts, but you pay set prices for music, and always buy the whole thing
Jack Sondergaard: and it's only for non-text media so far
Lyzzy Acronym: you are talking about drm...right?
Jack Sondergaard: yes, there will always be some expensively produced movies and books that won't be free, and right now only programs like iTunes are providing access to them
Jack Sondergaard: this would be an alternative, but with a lot more options
Lyzzy Acronym: wait, wait...
Lyzzy Acronym: at which point does xanadu use DRM?
Jack Sondergaard: everything would be encrypted, this would also be a control on spam and spoofing
Lyzzy Acronym: yes..but it gets decrypted, when I paid for it and downloaded it to my computer - right?
Jack Sondergaard: if it isn't free, if it is free, the decryption would just be used to verify the authenticity of it
Jack Sondergaard: that a message was from your bank, not a thief, etc.
Lyzzy Acronym: mhm..
Jack Sondergaard: so it wouldn't be like email, where you never know what is legitimate
Lyzzy Acronym: Yep. I understand that technique.. But once it is decrypted - whether it's because its free or because I paid...what would stop me from pirating?
Jack Sondergaard: that is probably going to be something that will have to be what users watch out for and report, but there might be software that will watch for illegal pirating too
Lyzzy Acronym: hm..so there is the rub....
Jack Sondergaard: however there will be big incentives to reuse in Xanadu
Jack Sondergaard: before publishing anything, the author will give prior permission to have any portion of their document quoted by anyone
Jack Sondergaard: and the portion will be linked to the original
Lyzzy Acronym: Hm..But I could copy the essay anywhere without this restriction....
Lyzzy Acronym: s/essay/document/
Johnwl Box: hello
Lyzzy Acronym: hi
Jack Sondergaard: yes, you could, but since you already have permission to quote, it would be an incentive not to do so without having it linked to the original
Jack Sondergaard: hi Johnwl
Johnwl Box: Wuz up!
Jack Sondergaard: hi Peace
Peace Micheline: hi, this is a magical place, i'll just listen if that's alright
Jack Sondergaard: discussion about Xanadu
Peace Micheline: yes
Jack Sondergaard: yes, that's fine
Lyzzy Acronym: Hm..and where would it be effective to prohibit quoting?
Jack Sondergaard: I'm not sure what you mean
Lyzzy Acronym: hm...you said, the author can allow or prohibit quoting...
Jack Sondergaard: no, actually the author can't prohibit quoting
Lyzzy Acronym: oh..then I misunderstood you. Sorry
Lyzzy Acronym: ah..you where saying, that he automaticaly gives anyone this permission
Jack Sondergaard: yes
Lyzzy Acronym: I see now..but as the links are 2-way, the author would know, that I did so...
Jack Sondergaard: yes, an author can always see where they are being quoted
Jack Sondergaard: so if they disagree with a refutation of an argument they have made, they can add a link to their comment on that
Lyzzy Acronym: that would be great for science, right?
Jack Sondergaard: yes
Lyzzy Acronym: Hm..and every link points directly to the document, right?
Jack Sondergaard: yes
Jack Sondergaard: so a scientist could write about a theory, and others could add links to supporting evidence, refutations, variations, dissagreements, comments, etc.
Lyzzy Acronym: thats sounds very nice
Peace Micheline: that sounds like increased strength between neural connections
Lyzzy Acronym: Hm..is there also a system for mirroring or similar, in case the server with the documents goes down?
Jack Sondergaard: yes, everything would have at least 3 locations, to make sure it doesn't dissappear
Jack Sondergaard: but it would always have the same address, regardless of the server it was on
Lyzzy Acronym: so...this address and its contents had to be linked cryptographicaly, right?
Lyzzy Acronym: to make sure you get the content you want..
Robbie Peterman: right
Lyzzy Acronym: hm?
Robbie Peterman: hhmmmmm
Jack Sondergaard: I don't know about using encryption on the address, but the content would be
Lyzzy Acronym: I was thinking about how to make sure, that you get the right content to an address...
Jack Sondergaard: we are having a discussion about Xanadu, a hypertext system
Jack Sondergaard: the server would ensure the address matches the content, it would be in some kind of database
Lyzzy Acronym: A central sever then?
Jack Sondergaard: it would probably start on one server, then when debugged, be on a distributed set of servers, or even p2p
Lyzzy Acronym: mhm..
Peace Micheline: may i ask a general question, metaphorical about xanadu
Jack Sondergaard: yes
Peace Micheline: do you know how if you have hardened arteries, your body has within itself a healing system so if you walk for exercise an alternate set of arteries arises to give healthy blood flow?
Peace Micheline: imho the global brain is clogged and an alternate neural net is here, the internet, sl, etc that is eclipsing the original old paradigm neural net
Jack Sondergaard: a self-healing system?
Lyzzy Acronym: hm?
Peace Micheline: and it sounds like xanadu is an amazing two way neural net
Lyzzy Acronym: old neural net? What are you talking about?
Jack Sondergaard: it would be similar to a neural net in many ways
Jack Sondergaard: there are many dimensioned set of links
Peace Micheline: yes
Peace Micheline: that's what i was wondering
Peace Micheline: by old neural net, i meant the way business is done out in the rl today, corporations and countries interacting without really going deep
Lyzzy Acronym: aaah
Peace Micheline: but the newer neural net, imho, goes deep
Jack Sondergaard: the number of links could be staggering, but that can be good, if you have good filtering
Peace Micheline: and xanadu seems to not only go deep but have healthy connections
Lyzzy Acronym: mhm..yep
Peace Micheline: i think metaphorically, sorry
Peace Micheline: thanks
Jack Sondergaard: SL does have some interesting business models
Lyzzy Acronym: I think its quite usefull to think that way...
Jack Sondergaard: an alternative currency, selectable properties on virtual objects relating to creation and ownership
Lyzzy Acronym: yep. I like that too..
Peace Micheline: no tribes, no borders
Lyzzy Acronym: But when we view xanadu as a neural net, then central servers are bad, right?
Peace Micheline: 800000 signed up in the last 60 days, its a growing web
Peace Micheline: no, i'd think that we don't know how the new neural net would really work
Jack Sondergaard: the web now is a mix of servers
Lyzzy Acronym: yep. But there are only a few central ones
Jack Sondergaard: Google is centrally controlled, but has over a million servers
Jack Sondergaard: Folding@Home uses p2p for distributed processing, also the SETI project
Lyzzy Acronym: yep
Lyzzy Acronym: And its very effective
Lyzzy Acronym: Thats why i think there should be no central server for node- authentification
Lyzzy Acronym: err content-authentification
Jack Sondergaard: so you can have some control over content even though it isn't on just one server
Peace Micheline: thank you so much, I've got to go
Lyzzy Acronym: bye
Johnwl Box: nice meeting you
Jack Sondergaard: you could have a shared database, like the name-servers use
Lyzzy Acronym: For every single document?
Lyzzy Acronym: sounds pretty slow to me...
Lyzzy Acronym: why not use md5-style authentication
Lyzzy Acronym: you just put a md5sum in the last part of the address..and tadaa...
Jack Sondergaard: computers are always getting faster, so authenticating everything isn't out of the question
Lyzzy Acronym: Of course not
Lyzzy Acronym: I was just talking about how to authenticate the contents of a document....by md5 instead of leaving this to a central server.
Jack Sondergaard: Then Second Life content is protected, but still streaming rapidly
Lyzzy Acronym: Hm?
Lyzzy Acronym: I didn't know about that..
Lyzzy Acronym: How does it work?
Jack Sondergaard: is md5 similar to public key?
Lyzzy Acronym: no..not quite
Lyzzy Acronym: It's a mathematical algorithm that you apply to any data you want..
Jack Sondergaard: for authentication?
Lyzzy Acronym: Yes, quite...It calculates this data into a so called hash
Lyzzy Acronym: With the length of - for example 128 Bits
Jack Sondergaard: oh, OK
Jack Sondergaard: yes, that might be something the programmers would consider
Lyzzy Acronym: When two hashes are the same, then chances that the document is different are next to nothing
Lyzzy Acronym: At least if no one tries to generate 2 different documents with the same hash - but there is no known technique to do this in a realistic timespan yet.
Jack Sondergaard: yes, that might be used for authentication
Lyzzy Acronym: Thus, you would not need external severs to do that
Lyzzy Acronym: every document could authenticate itself
Jack Sondergaard: so it would be p2p, right?
Lyzzy Acronym: yep - thats why I like the idea so much
Lyzzy Acronym: The more popular a file, the easier to get it - and the bandwidth is always high
Jack Sondergaard: there would need to be a high degree of coordination in Xanadu, since it would be a highly linked set of documents
Jack Sondergaard: it would include a lot more that just documents, but also all the links between them
Lyzzy Acronym: mhm..
Lyzzy Acronym: about that unbreakable part..
Lyzzy Acronym: Can you explain, how it works?
Jack Sondergaard: any document in it can be edited, but you never change the original, but create a new version
Jack Sondergaard: so links are stable
Lyzzy Acronym: but if the author removes it?
Jack Sondergaard: and since links are 2-way, older documents link to newer versions
Jack Sondergaard: removing documents would be possible, but highly discouraged, since it could cause broken links
Lyzzy Acronym: Hm...
Lyzzy Acronym: Hm..so its not apt for bussinesses, right? You need to delete a lot there
Jack Sondergaard: probably if a document is removed, links to it would also be either removed or tagged as broken
Lyzzy Acronym: yep, that would be better
Lyzzy Acronym: Like...if one person clicks it and it doesn't work...it gets reported as broken
Lyzzy Acronym: Then its hidden and later removed, if its still not to find
Jack Sondergaard: for business, documents could contain pointers to a newer version
Lyzzy Acronym: Yep, but whats with ... ads for example
Lyzzy Acronym: or just plain junk like movie trailers
Lyzzy Acronym: You don't want them to be around for aeons
Jack Sondergaard: the software would know about broken links, it wouldn't have to be reported
Jack Sondergaard: with hard drives as cheap as they are now, it is becoming feasable to keep everything
Lyzzy Acronym: is that so?
Lyzzy Acronym: Whats with High-Definition-Video?
Jack Sondergaard: you could mark things as obsolete, but still have them available for research
Lyzzy Acronym: Oh..
Lyzzy Acronym: ok then
Lyzzy Acronym: but wait a moment...
Lyzzy Acronym: What exactly is it, that you want to do with xanadu?
Jack Sondergaard: yes, you wouldn't have to download and store everything locally
Jack Sondergaard: I want to see a better form of hypertext replace the web and even email
Lyzzy Acronym: Hm..but then you need to have something that satisfies everyones needs..
Jack Sondergaard: the web was a dumbed down form of hypertext when it was created
Lyzzy Acronym: Oh. I didn't knew that..
Jack Sondergaard: it wouldn't satisfy everyone 100%, but I think it would be an improvement
Lyzzy Acronym: Well....not being able to host files for a limited timespan would certainly not satisfy home-pc-hosters
Jack Sondergaard: I used to work in a bookstore, and saw the massive waste inherent in paper publishing
Lyzzy Acronym: yep. Thats quite a shame
Lyzzy Acronym: But tft's are hard to read
Jack Sondergaard: a document would not have to be on the same server, just have a stable address
Lyzzy Acronym: yep..thats what i meant..
Jack Sondergaard: what is a tft?
Lyzzy Acronym: I meant a flat non-crt-monitor...can't tell you what the acronym means though..besides flat and thin
Jack Sondergaard: oh, I remember hearing it now
Jack Sondergaard: it's a type of LED display [I meant LCD]
Lyzzy Acronym: LED? Yep. probably...I only ment monitors in general
Lyzzy Acronym: books are just more practical than them...for now
Jack Sondergaard: for now, yes, but that is changing
Jack Sondergaard: there is a type of screen now as readable as a book, and that uses no power until something changes
Lyzzy Acronym: really? Wow...how much?
Lyzzy Acronym: And can it display LaTex? Or plaintext?
Jack Sondergaard: it's really new, so I think about $600
Jack Sondergaard: it should be able to display anything
Jack Sondergaard: it's bitmapped
Lyzzy Acronym: hm..600 $ is a bit expensive, but I'll give it a glance
Lyzzy Acronym: can you give me any information?
Jack Sondergaard: when that comes down in price, and you add all the annotating capabilities and links of hypertext, people will take notice
Jack Sondergaard: I don't remember where I read it
Lyzzy Acronym: bummer
Jack Sondergaard: consider the waste in newspaper publishing, can that go on for long with computer prices dropping and paper costs rising
Jack Sondergaard: there are some companies working on digital paper
Lyzzy Acronym: yep, I heard that
Jack Sondergaard: if you search on "digital paper", that new screen should show up
Jack Sondergaard: I think it might be by Sony
Lyzzy Acronym: *sigh* did it have to be them?
Lyzzy Acronym: Anyway, regarding xanadu...
Lyzzy Acronym: What's with all the youngsters?
Jack Sondergaard: you mean the visitors here earlier?
Lyzzy Acronym: no
Lyzzy Acronym: I mean young people in general
Lyzzy Acronym: they want to share stuff on the internet - not host it
Jack Sondergaard: file sharing is a type of hosting
Lyzzy Acronym: Yep..But the idea that someone watches is not quite popular there
Jack Sondergaard: just about any modern computer can be a server too, with a static IP address
Lyzzy Acronym: oh - before I forget it...
Lyzzy Acronym: did you know, that there is a net, where everyones privacy is ensured
Lyzzy Acronym: - at least, as good as that works for know?
Lyzzy Acronym: *now
Jack Sondergaard: I know there are VPN's and private chat servers
Jack Sondergaard: I'm running one now on my computer
Lyzzy Acronym: hm..more like..private internet
Lyzzy Acronym: With anonymity build in
Jack Sondergaard: p2p?
Lyzzy Acronym: Yep, its based on that
Lyzzy Acronym: Its called Freenet - like the internet proveder
Jack Sondergaard: Oh, I have heard of Freenet, but haven't used it yet
Jack Sondergaard: but it has been discussed in regards to Xanadu
Lyzzy Acronym: It's laggy and the content is not too interesting
Lyzzy Acronym: at least if you are only interested in legal stuff
Lyzzy Acronym: *sigh* on the other hand..I can't stand it, when people are sniffing around ...
Jack Sondergaard: yes, most chats are like that too
Jack Sondergaard: like here earlier?
Lyzzy Acronym: Was it really that way?
Jack Sondergaard: usually, not that many people drift through, it was unusual
Lyzzy Acronym: Hm? You mean the too guys, that poped up a while ago?
Jack Sondergaard: yes
Lyzzy Acronym: ah...but that's not what I meant..
Lyzzy Acronym: I meant sniffing ...like using central servers to destroy one's privacy
Lyzzy Acronym: I hate that
Lyzzy Acronym: But goverments do it
Jack Sondergaard: well for times when you want to bypass being sniffed on, then some kind of encrypted p2p is what you want to use
Lyzzy Acronym: yep..and not unencrypted xanadu - sadly
Jack Sondergaard: Xanadu would be transmitted encrypted
Lyzzy Acronym: But I would still be the author
Lyzzy Acronym: And everyone would know that
Lyzzy Acronym: could get dangerous with an opinion like mine *grins*
Jack Sondergaard: yes, it wouldn't be for discussion of everything, everywhere
Jack Sondergaard: it might be possible to have a place in Xanadu for anonymous messages
Lyzzy Acronym: hm..
Lyzzy Acronym: then when you can ensure this
Jack Sondergaard: that would be needed for whistle-blowers
Lyzzy Acronym: but otherwise the netpeople would go "XANADU IS TAKING AWAY OUR PRIVACY"
Lyzzy Acronym: the net as it is is more or less anarchistic
Jack Sondergaard: that would be up to the programmers to figure out how to include a "safe-zone" for those who don't want their identity known
Lyzzy Acronym: hm..and up to the usual folk to stop stupid politicans from closing this zone down
Jack Sondergaard: but for most publishing most people want to know who is saying something
Lyzzy Acronym: hm...
Lyzzy Acronym: In scientific stuff, yes
Lyzzy Acronym: But then many sites like about black magic and stuff would be lost
Lyzzy Acronym: Because the authors did not want to ridicule themselves
Jack Sondergaard: you could just include a way for the author of a document to be "Anonymous"
Lyzzy Acronym: hm...that would be great..
Lyzzy Acronym: When it works, that is
Lyzzy Acronym: I dont know much about the structure of xanadu yet
Lyzzy Acronym: so, would it?
Jack Sondergaard: I'm still learning about the structure myself, but I know the programmers working on it have a high regard for protecting the identity of the readers
Lyzzy Acronym: hm...
Lyzzy Acronym: getting a little to comfy here
Jack Sondergaard: and at the very least, there will be those who will publish controversial documents for others who wish to remain anonymous, like reporters who protect their sources
Lyzzy Acronym: yep
Lyzzy Acronym: So basicaly it would be a lot like now....
Jack Sondergaard: it could be
Lyzzy Acronym: If you want reliable information you go to an uni site - if you want easy information fast you go to wikipedia
Lyzzy Acronym: I guess it would even be best to make anonymity the default
Lyzzy Acronym: because computer users tend to be stupid
Jack Sondergaard: for some things
Lyzzy Acronym: now, standardly...
Jack Sondergaard: but there are times when, for publishing, and messages, when you want to know who is saying something
Lyzzy Acronym: yep
Lyzzy Acronym: So by default you are anonymous
Lyzzy Acronym: And if not, you state you identity (and prove it in the process)
Jack Sondergaard: If you want to sell content, you would need to prove your identity
Jack Sondergaard: well, I better get a little more rest before work
Lyzzy Acronym: Hm..ok
Lyzzy Acronym: but one last thing to think about, ok?
Lyzzy Acronym: What would you do regarding intellectual property?
Jack Sondergaard: OK
Johnwl Box: hmmm
Johnwl Box: broad topic there
Lyzzy Acronym: As long as such a thing exists, young artists can't sell anything..
Lyzzy Acronym: except when they can prove its totally theirs'
Jack Sondergaard: it would be protected, but so would the right of all users to quote anything anywhere to any length
Lyzzy Acronym: I mean..existing stuff
Lyzzy Acronym: Like source-code...
Johnwl Box: licensing ?
Jack Sondergaard: there are laws that will need to be followed to keep from getting sued
Lyzzy Acronym: Like..."dont do what we have done, even when you didn't copy" ?
Jack Sondergaard: programs could be sold just like any other digital content
Lyzzy Acronym: binaries..yes...
Lyzzy Acronym: and the opensource-guys? What's with them?
Jack Sondergaard: oh, you mean software patents?
Lyzzy Acronym: yep
Lyzzy Acronym: and SCO
Lyzzy Acronym: and so on
Jack Sondergaard: well lawyers will get involved with that as they always do
Johnwl Box: lol
Lyzzy Acronym: yep
Jack Sondergaard: but open source can be freely copied and modified even now
Lyzzy Acronym: bah
Lyzzy Acronym: not without the GNU
Lyzzy Acronym: and the organisation behind them
Lyzzy Acronym: and even they are having problems with fighting microsoft, sco and so on
Jack Sondergaard: yes, if you copy the code, you would need to link to the license
Lyzzy Acronym: and then microsoft sues you, because they where the first to "invent" a progress bar
Jack Sondergaard: a lot of things in software are now universal, so even MS would have a tough case on some things
Lyzzy Acronym: hm...
Lyzzy Acronym: they nearly got secure computing trough
Lyzzy Acronym: but its the same with small musicans and big labels..
Jack Sondergaard: PGP made secure computing possible for everyone
Lyzzy Acronym: that's not what I meant...
Jack Sondergaard: the big labels are like dinosaurs
Lyzzy Acronym: that's the problem
Lyzzy Acronym: but there aren't that many of them here
Lyzzy Acronym: so selling content works
Lyzzy Acronym: but look for example at sony
Lyzzy Acronym: or better: sony bgm
Lyzzy Acronym: they hijack your computer and rip a huge leak in your security
Lyzzy Acronym: and talk about how immoral it is to copy music
Jack Sondergaard: independents can compete, just like Linux is competing
Lyzzy Acronym: because it has gnu
Jack Sondergaard: it will cost Sony in reputation
Lyzzy Acronym: err GPL
Lyzzy Acronym: not too much though
Lyzzy Acronym: and what happend with microsotf spying its users?
Jack Sondergaard: Ubuntu is growing like crazy
Lyzzy Acronym: hm
Lyzzy Acronym: mhm
Lyzzy Acronym: yep
Lyzzy Acronym: But if they forbid it tomorrow that's it
Jack Sondergaard: MS will do what they do to protect their software, but there are alternatives
Jack Sondergaard: if who forbids what?
Lyzzy Acronym: but if you want to play mp3 or most dvds on linux you become a criminal
Lyzzy Acronym: They - microsoft- "proof" that Linux is using their source code....
Jack Sondergaard: why is that, because of the mp3 patent?
Lyzzy Acronym: yep
Lyzzy Acronym: And because you need keys for dvd-players
Lyzzy Acronym: which were never shipped for linux
Lyzzy Acronym: - but that doesn't matter anymore as they are cracked
Jack Sondergaard: I will have to look into that, now that I have a Linux box
Lyzzy Acronym: I just wonder, if they make the same stupid mistake with blueray
Lyzzy Acronym: because if not, you can't play them as a linux-user
Jack Sondergaard: I would think it would be in the interest of movie publishers to have people be able to watch their movies on any computer
Lyzzy Acronym: ubuntu users are still not too many compared with M$-Users
Jack Sondergaard: so I think they will be looking for ways to fix that problem
Jack Sondergaard: but which is growing fastest
Lyzzy Acronym: of all linuxes...which lack no support for media-formats yet
Lyzzy Acronym: and do not always support a given hardware
Jack Sondergaard: a lot of Windows users are sick of the problems and don't want to buy yet another new computer to run Vista, so will be open to something else, not everyone, but a lot
Lyzzy Acronym: hm..let's hope so
Lyzzy Acronym: But I don't want to keep you awake forever
Jack Sondergaard: I just installed Linux a week ago, so haven't used it a lot yet
Jack Sondergaard: I normally use a Mac
Jack Sondergaard: but I am extremely impressed with Ubuntu
Lyzzy Acronym: thats unix too..too and partly free, as far as I know
Jack Sondergaard: yes, it is Unix based
Lyzzy Acronym: when you are fed up with being patronized by the interface...
Lyzzy Acronym: of ubuntu - give Debian a try
Lyzzy Acronym: It's rock-hard to understand at the beginning - but then it's also rock-solid and simply rocks
Jack Sondergaard: I might, but Ubuntu is based on Debian, but I might try Kubuntu also
Jack Sondergaard: yes, I can see that already
Jack Sondergaard: Mac OSX is also very reliable
Lyzzy Acronym: yep
Lyzzy Acronym: But not for me
Jack Sondergaard: I almost never reboot
Lyzzy Acronym: I want to get my hands dirty at the shell
Lyzzy Acronym: no fancy clicking when I can fire scripts..
Jack Sondergaard: yes, I am learning some Unix on Mac also
Jack Sondergaard: well, I better get a little more rest, got a long day ahead
Jack Sondergaard: thanks for coming, you had a lot of good questions and comments
Lyzzy Acronym: Thanks for the lecture and the discussion too - it was very informative
Jack Sondergaard: you are welcome