Jack Sondergaard: hi Patrick

Jack Sondergaard: hi Lyzzy

Lyzzy Acronym: hi there

Jack Sondergaard: are you here for the discussion?

Lyzzy Acronym: yep

Jack Sondergaard: good

Lyzzy Acronym: But I dont know too much about the subject

Lyzzy Acronym: I'm just curious..

Jack Sondergaard: that's OK

Lyzzy Acronym: ok then

Jack Sondergaard: Xanadu was originally designed in the early 1960's

Jack Sondergaard: one of the key features is that links are unbreakable and 2-way

Lyzzy Acronym: that means, I can't get a 404?

Jack Sondergaard: yes

Jack Sondergaard: that means if I write something and someone else comments on it later somewhere, their comment is automatically linked from my original document

Jack Sondergaard: links are also span to span, not just from a point to a document or point

Jack Sondergaard: and they can visibly link several open documents

Lyzzy Acronym: I see...at least I think I do..

Jack Sondergaard: since there could be so many links on a page, there would need to be good filters

Jack Sondergaard: and links could be typed, so you could view just one set of links at a time

Jack Sondergaard: instead of being imbedded inside a document, they would be stored separately and could be updated and added to independently of the document

Lyzzy Acronym: hm..ok...

Lyzzy Acronym: But please give me some example..

Jack Sondergaard: there could be links of correction, agreement, reference, definitions, etc.

Lyzzy Acronym: Hm.....On an server that is. So its viewable remotely?

Jack Sondergaard: yes, it would run as a type of database on a server

Jack Sondergaard: and then there would be various kinds of programs that would access the servers

Jack Sondergaard: hi DBS

Lyzzy Acronym: ah, I see..so you would need the filters to block referencing adsites..

Jack Sondergaard: another thing about documents is that each document would have an unchageable address of it's own

Jack Sondergaard: yes, you could filter everything to suit you

Lyzzy Acronym: hm..ok. About this address...

Lyzzy Acronym: How would it work in practice?

Jack Sondergaard: web addresses now have a numerical address

Jack Sondergaard: of 4 numbers separated by dots

Jack Sondergaard: each number can be up to 255

Jack Sondergaard: in Xanadu, there would be more than 4 numbers

Lyzzy Acronym: its called an IP-Address, right?

Jack Sondergaard: and each one could be any desired length

Jack Sondergaard: yes

Jack Sondergaard: so one of the numbers could be the author number, and then a document number, version and subversion numbers, and format number

Jack Sondergaard: in a link, it would refer to the beginning and ending documents, and the spans in each that are linked

Lyzzy Acronym: I see...

Jack Sondergaard: for it to work right, everything would need to be encrypted and authenticated

Jack Sondergaard: so things like movies, books, and music now kept off the web could safely be sold

Lyzzy Acronym: hm...

Jack Sondergaard: and buyers would only pay for the parts they actually read, listened to, or watched

Lyzzy Acronym: uhm..wait a second

Jack Sondergaard: but content could still be free too

Lyzzy Acronym: That's already true for now, isn't it?

Jack Sondergaard: it would be up to the creator of the content to decide if it would be free or sold, and at what cost

Lyzzy Acronym: Well, they are doing that now too

Lyzzy Acronym: you can register for a price and then buy stuff or rent it

Jack Sondergaard: yes, in some ways, but there is no simple consistant way to give away or sell (at the seller's chosen price) spans of any media type

Lyzzy Acronym: mhm

Lyzzy Acronym: yes. But the main problem for vendors is, that it gets pirated, right?

Jack Sondergaard: so if you start to watch a movie, and only watch 10 minutes of it, you wouldn't be charged for the whole thing

Lyzzy Acronym: you can do that now too

Lyzzy Acronym: But they are afraid, that you copy it to your harddrive instead of watching it...

Jack Sondergaard: yes, that's why so much is kept off the web and sold only in stores, the producers of it don't want it pirated

Lyzzy Acronym: But producers can't stop pirating with xanadu - or can they?

Jack Sondergaard: iTunes has it partly right, content is protected, you can also get free podcasts, but you pay set prices for music, and always buy the whole thing

Jack Sondergaard: and it's only for non-text media so far

Lyzzy Acronym: you are talking about drm...right?

Jack Sondergaard: yes, there will always be some expensively produced movies and books that won't be free, and right now only programs like iTunes are providing access to them

Jack Sondergaard: this would be an alternative, but with a lot more options

Lyzzy Acronym: wait, wait...

Lyzzy Acronym: at which point does xanadu use DRM?

Jack Sondergaard: everything would be encrypted, this would also be a control on spam and spoofing

Lyzzy Acronym: yes..but it gets decrypted, when I paid for it and downloaded it to my computer - right?

Jack Sondergaard: if it isn't free, if it is free, the decryption would just be used to verify the authenticity of it

Jack Sondergaard: that a message was from your bank, not a thief, etc.

Lyzzy Acronym: mhm..

Jack Sondergaard: so it wouldn't be like email, where you never know what is legitimate

Lyzzy Acronym: Yep. I understand that technique.. But once it is decrypted - whether it's because its free or because I paid...what would stop me from pirating?

Jack Sondergaard: that is probably going to be something that will have to be what users watch out for and report, but there might be software that will watch for illegal pirating too

Lyzzy Acronym: hm..so there is the rub....

Jack Sondergaard: however there will be big incentives to reuse in Xanadu

Jack Sondergaard: before publishing anything, the author will give prior permission to have any portion of their document quoted by anyone

Jack Sondergaard: and the portion will be linked to the original

Lyzzy Acronym: Hm..But I could copy the essay anywhere without this restriction....

Lyzzy Acronym: s/essay/document/

Johnwl Box: hello

Lyzzy Acronym: hi

Jack Sondergaard: yes, you could, but since you already have permission to quote, it would be an incentive not to do so without having it linked to the original

Jack Sondergaard: hi Johnwl

Johnwl Box: Wuz up!

Jack Sondergaard: hi Peace

Peace Micheline: hi, this is a magical place, i'll just listen if that's alright

Jack Sondergaard: discussion about Xanadu

Peace Micheline: yes

Jack Sondergaard: yes, that's fine

Lyzzy Acronym: Hm..and where would it be effective to prohibit quoting?

Jack Sondergaard: I'm not sure what you mean

Lyzzy Acronym: hm...you said, the author can allow or prohibit quoting...

Jack Sondergaard: no, actually the author can't prohibit quoting

Lyzzy Acronym: oh..then I misunderstood you. Sorry

Lyzzy Acronym: ah..you where saying, that he automaticaly gives anyone this permission

Jack Sondergaard: yes

Lyzzy Acronym: I see now..but as the links are 2-way, the author would know, that I did so...

Jack Sondergaard: yes, an author can always see where they are being quoted

Jack Sondergaard: so if they disagree with a refutation of an argument they have made, they can add a link to their comment on that

Lyzzy Acronym: that would be great for science, right?

Jack Sondergaard: yes

Lyzzy Acronym: Hm..and every link points directly to the document, right?

Jack Sondergaard: yes

Jack Sondergaard: so a scientist could write about a theory, and others could add links to supporting evidence, refutations, variations, dissagreements, comments, etc.

Lyzzy Acronym: thats sounds very nice

Peace Micheline: that sounds like increased strength between neural connections

Lyzzy Acronym: Hm..is there also a system for mirroring or similar, in case the server with the documents goes down?

Jack Sondergaard: yes, everything would have at least 3 locations, to make sure it doesn't dissappear

Jack Sondergaard: but it would always have the same address, regardless of the server it was on

Lyzzy Acronym: so...this address and its contents had to be linked cryptographicaly, right?

Lyzzy Acronym: to make sure you get the content you want..

Robbie Peterman: right

Lyzzy Acronym: hm?

Robbie Peterman: hhmmmmm

Jack Sondergaard: I don't know about using encryption on the address, but the content would be

Lyzzy Acronym: I was thinking about how to make sure, that you get the right content to an address...

Jack Sondergaard: we are having a discussion about Xanadu, a hypertext system

Jack Sondergaard: the server would ensure the address matches the content, it would be in some kind of database

Lyzzy Acronym: A central sever then?

Jack Sondergaard: it would probably start on one server, then when debugged, be on a distributed set of servers, or even p2p

Lyzzy Acronym: mhm..

Peace Micheline: may i ask a general question, metaphorical about xanadu

Jack Sondergaard: yes

Peace Micheline: do you know how if you have hardened arteries, your body has within itself a healing system so if you walk for exercise an alternate set of arteries arises to give healthy blood flow?

Peace Micheline: imho the global brain is clogged and an alternate neural net is here, the internet, sl, etc that is eclipsing the original old paradigm neural net

Jack Sondergaard: a self-healing system?

Lyzzy Acronym: hm?

Peace Micheline: and it sounds like xanadu is an amazing two way neural net

Lyzzy Acronym: old neural net? What are you talking about?

Jack Sondergaard: it would be similar to a neural net in many ways

Jack Sondergaard: there are many dimensioned set of links

Peace Micheline: yes

Peace Micheline: that's what i was wondering

Peace Micheline: by old neural net, i meant the way business is done out in the rl today, corporations and countries interacting without really going deep

Lyzzy Acronym: aaah

Peace Micheline: but the newer neural net, imho, goes deep

Jack Sondergaard: the number of links could be staggering, but that can be good, if you have good filtering

Peace Micheline: and xanadu seems to not only go deep but have healthy connections

Lyzzy Acronym: mhm..yep

Peace Micheline: i think metaphorically, sorry

Peace Micheline: thanks

Jack Sondergaard: SL does have some interesting business models

Lyzzy Acronym: I think its quite usefull to think that way...

Jack Sondergaard: an alternative currency, selectable properties on virtual objects relating to creation and ownership

Lyzzy Acronym: yep. I like that too..

Peace Micheline: no tribes, no borders

Lyzzy Acronym: But when we view xanadu as a neural net, then central servers are bad, right?

Peace Micheline: 800000 signed up in the last 60 days, its a growing web

Peace Micheline: no, i'd think that we don't know how the new neural net would really work

Jack Sondergaard: the web now is a mix of servers

Lyzzy Acronym: yep. But there are only a few central ones

Jack Sondergaard: Google is centrally controlled, but has over a million servers

Jack Sondergaard: Folding@Home uses p2p for distributed processing, also the SETI project

Lyzzy Acronym: yep

Lyzzy Acronym: And its very effective

Lyzzy Acronym: Thats why i think there should be no central server for node- authentification

Lyzzy Acronym: err content-authentification

Jack Sondergaard: so you can have some control over content even though it isn't on just one server

Peace Micheline: thank you so much, I've got to go

Lyzzy Acronym: bye

Johnwl Box: nice meeting you

Jack Sondergaard: you could have a shared database, like the name-servers use

Lyzzy Acronym: For every single document?

Lyzzy Acronym: sounds pretty slow to me...

Lyzzy Acronym: why not use md5-style authentication

Lyzzy Acronym: you just put a md5sum in the last part of the address..and tadaa...

Jack Sondergaard: computers are always getting faster, so authenticating everything isn't out of the question

Lyzzy Acronym: Of course not

Lyzzy Acronym: I was just talking about how to authenticate the contents of a document....by md5 instead of leaving this to a central server.

Jack Sondergaard: Then Second Life content is protected, but still streaming rapidly

Lyzzy Acronym: Hm?

Lyzzy Acronym: I didn't know about that..

Lyzzy Acronym: How does it work?

Jack Sondergaard: is md5 similar to public key?

Lyzzy Acronym: no..not quite

Lyzzy Acronym: It's a mathematical algorithm that you apply to any data you want..

Jack Sondergaard: for authentication?

Lyzzy Acronym: Yes, quite...It calculates this data into a so called hash

Lyzzy Acronym: With the length of - for example 128 Bits

Jack Sondergaard: oh, OK

Jack Sondergaard: yes, that might be something the programmers would consider

Lyzzy Acronym: When two hashes are the same, then chances that the document is different are next to nothing

Lyzzy Acronym: At least if no one tries to generate 2 different documents with the same hash - but there is no known technique to do this in a realistic timespan yet.

Jack Sondergaard: yes, that might be used for authentication

Lyzzy Acronym: Thus, you would not need external severs to do that

Lyzzy Acronym: every document could authenticate itself

Jack Sondergaard: so it would be p2p, right?

Lyzzy Acronym: yep - thats why I like the idea so much

Lyzzy Acronym: The more popular a file, the easier to get it - and the bandwidth is always high

Jack Sondergaard: there would need to be a high degree of coordination in Xanadu, since it would be a highly linked set of documents

Jack Sondergaard: it would include a lot more that just documents, but also all the links between them

Lyzzy Acronym: mhm..

Lyzzy Acronym: about that unbreakable part..

Lyzzy Acronym: Can you explain, how it works?

Jack Sondergaard: any document in it can be edited, but you never change the original, but create a new version

Jack Sondergaard: so links are stable

Lyzzy Acronym: but if the author removes it?

Jack Sondergaard: and since links are 2-way, older documents link to newer versions

Jack Sondergaard: removing documents would be possible, but highly discouraged, since it could cause broken links

Lyzzy Acronym: Hm...

Lyzzy Acronym: Hm..so its not apt for bussinesses, right? You need to delete a lot there

Jack Sondergaard: probably if a document is removed, links to it would also be either removed or tagged as broken

Lyzzy Acronym: yep, that would be better

Lyzzy Acronym: Like...if one person clicks it and it doesn't work...it gets reported as broken

Lyzzy Acronym: Then its hidden and later removed, if its still not to find

Jack Sondergaard: for business, documents could contain pointers to a newer version

Lyzzy Acronym: Yep, but whats with ... ads for example

Lyzzy Acronym: or just plain junk like movie trailers

Lyzzy Acronym: You don't want them to be around for aeons

Jack Sondergaard: the software would know about broken links, it wouldn't have to be reported

Jack Sondergaard: with hard drives as cheap as they are now, it is becoming feasable to keep everything

Lyzzy Acronym: is that so?

Lyzzy Acronym: Whats with High-Definition-Video?

Jack Sondergaard: you could mark things as obsolete, but still have them available for research

Lyzzy Acronym: Oh..

Lyzzy Acronym: ok then

Lyzzy Acronym: but wait a moment...

Lyzzy Acronym: What exactly is it, that you want to do with xanadu?

Jack Sondergaard: yes, you wouldn't have to download and store everything locally

Jack Sondergaard: I want to see a better form of hypertext replace the web and even email

Lyzzy Acronym: Hm..but then you need to have something that satisfies everyones needs..

Jack Sondergaard: the web was a dumbed down form of hypertext when it was created

Lyzzy Acronym: Oh. I didn't knew that..

Jack Sondergaard: it wouldn't satisfy everyone 100%, but I think it would be an improvement

Lyzzy Acronym: Well....not being able to host files for a limited timespan would certainly not satisfy home-pc-hosters

Jack Sondergaard: I used to work in a bookstore, and saw the massive waste inherent in paper publishing

Lyzzy Acronym: yep. Thats quite a shame

Lyzzy Acronym: But tft's are hard to read

Jack Sondergaard: a document would not have to be on the same server, just have a stable address

Lyzzy Acronym: yep..thats what i meant..

Jack Sondergaard: what is a tft?

Lyzzy Acronym: I meant a flat non-crt-monitor...can't tell you what the acronym means though..besides flat and thin

Jack Sondergaard: oh, I remember hearing it now

Jack Sondergaard: it's a type of LED display [I meant LCD]

Lyzzy Acronym: LED? Yep. probably...I only ment monitors in general

Lyzzy Acronym: books are just more practical than them...for now

Jack Sondergaard: for now, yes, but that is changing

Jack Sondergaard: there is a type of screen now as readable as a book, and that uses no power until something changes

Lyzzy Acronym: really? Wow...how much?

Lyzzy Acronym: And can it display LaTex? Or plaintext?

Jack Sondergaard: it's really new, so I think about $600

Jack Sondergaard: it should be able to display anything

Jack Sondergaard: it's bitmapped

Lyzzy Acronym: hm..600 $ is a bit expensive, but I'll give it a glance

Lyzzy Acronym: can you give me any information?

Jack Sondergaard: when that comes down in price, and you add all the annotating capabilities and links of hypertext, people will take notice

Jack Sondergaard: I don't remember where I read it

Lyzzy Acronym: bummer

Jack Sondergaard: consider the waste in newspaper publishing, can that go on for long with computer prices dropping and paper costs rising

Jack Sondergaard: there are some companies working on digital paper

Lyzzy Acronym: yep, I heard that

Jack Sondergaard: if you search on "digital paper", that new screen should show up

Jack Sondergaard: I think it might be by Sony

Lyzzy Acronym: *sigh* did it have to be them?

Lyzzy Acronym: Anyway, regarding xanadu...

Lyzzy Acronym: What's with all the youngsters?

Jack Sondergaard: you mean the visitors here earlier?

Lyzzy Acronym: no

Lyzzy Acronym: I mean young people in general

Lyzzy Acronym: they want to share stuff on the internet - not host it

Jack Sondergaard: file sharing is a type of hosting

Lyzzy Acronym: Yep..But the idea that someone watches is not quite popular there

Jack Sondergaard: just about any modern computer can be a server too, with a static IP address

Lyzzy Acronym: oh - before I forget it...

Lyzzy Acronym: did you know, that there is a net, where everyones privacy is ensured

Lyzzy Acronym: - at least, as good as that works for know?

Lyzzy Acronym: *now

Jack Sondergaard: I know there are VPN's and private chat servers

Jack Sondergaard: I'm running one now on my computer

Lyzzy Acronym: hm..more like..private internet

Lyzzy Acronym: With anonymity build in

Jack Sondergaard: p2p?

Lyzzy Acronym: Yep, its based on that

Lyzzy Acronym: Its called Freenet - like the internet proveder

Jack Sondergaard: Oh, I have heard of Freenet, but haven't used it yet

Jack Sondergaard: but it has been discussed in regards to Xanadu

Lyzzy Acronym: It's laggy and the content is not too interesting

Lyzzy Acronym: at least if you are only interested in legal stuff

Lyzzy Acronym: *sigh* on the other hand..I can't stand it, when people are sniffing around ...

Jack Sondergaard: yes, most chats are like that too

Jack Sondergaard: like here earlier?

Lyzzy Acronym: Was it really that way?

Jack Sondergaard: usually, not that many people drift through, it was unusual

Lyzzy Acronym: Hm? You mean the too guys, that poped up a while ago?

Jack Sondergaard: yes

Lyzzy Acronym: ah...but that's not what I meant..

Lyzzy Acronym: I meant sniffing ...like using central servers to destroy one's privacy

Lyzzy Acronym: I hate that

Lyzzy Acronym: But goverments do it

Jack Sondergaard: well for times when you want to bypass being sniffed on, then some kind of encrypted p2p is what you want to use

Lyzzy Acronym: yep..and not unencrypted xanadu - sadly

Jack Sondergaard: Xanadu would be transmitted encrypted

Lyzzy Acronym: But I would still be the author

Lyzzy Acronym: And everyone would know that

Lyzzy Acronym: could get dangerous with an opinion like mine *grins*

Jack Sondergaard: yes, it wouldn't be for discussion of everything, everywhere

Jack Sondergaard: it might be possible to have a place in Xanadu for anonymous messages

Lyzzy Acronym: hm..

Lyzzy Acronym: then when you can ensure this

Jack Sondergaard: that would be needed for whistle-blowers

Lyzzy Acronym: but otherwise the netpeople would go "XANADU IS TAKING AWAY OUR PRIVACY"

Lyzzy Acronym: the net as it is is more or less anarchistic

Jack Sondergaard: that would be up to the programmers to figure out how to include a "safe-zone" for those who don't want their identity known

Lyzzy Acronym: hm..and up to the usual folk to stop stupid politicans from closing this zone down

Jack Sondergaard: but for most publishing most people want to know who is saying something

Lyzzy Acronym: hm...

Lyzzy Acronym: In scientific stuff, yes

Lyzzy Acronym: But then many sites like about black magic and stuff would be lost

Lyzzy Acronym: Because the authors did not want to ridicule themselves

Jack Sondergaard: you could just include a way for the author of a document to be "Anonymous"

Lyzzy Acronym: hm...that would be great..

Lyzzy Acronym: When it works, that is

Lyzzy Acronym: I dont know much about the structure of xanadu yet

Lyzzy Acronym: so, would it?

Jack Sondergaard: I'm still learning about the structure myself, but I know the programmers working on it have a high regard for protecting the identity of the readers

Lyzzy Acronym: hm...

Lyzzy Acronym: getting a little to comfy here

Jack Sondergaard: and at the very least, there will be those who will publish controversial documents for others who wish to remain anonymous, like reporters who protect their sources

Lyzzy Acronym: yep

Lyzzy Acronym: So basicaly it would be a lot like now....

Jack Sondergaard: it could be

Lyzzy Acronym: If you want reliable information you go to an uni site - if you want easy information fast you go to wikipedia

Lyzzy Acronym: I guess it would even be best to make anonymity the default

Lyzzy Acronym: because computer users tend to be stupid

Jack Sondergaard: for some things

Lyzzy Acronym: now, standardly...

Jack Sondergaard: but there are times when, for publishing, and messages, when you want to know who is saying something

Lyzzy Acronym: yep

Lyzzy Acronym: So by default you are anonymous

Lyzzy Acronym: And if not, you state you identity (and prove it in the process)

Jack Sondergaard: If you want to sell content, you would need to prove your identity

Jack Sondergaard: well, I better get a little more rest before work

Lyzzy Acronym: Hm..ok

Lyzzy Acronym: but one last thing to think about, ok?

Lyzzy Acronym: What would you do regarding intellectual property?

Jack Sondergaard: OK

Johnwl Box: hmmm

Johnwl Box: broad topic there

Lyzzy Acronym: As long as such a thing exists, young artists can't sell anything..

Lyzzy Acronym: except when they can prove its totally theirs'

Jack Sondergaard: it would be protected, but so would the right of all users to quote anything anywhere to any length

Lyzzy Acronym: I mean..existing stuff

Lyzzy Acronym: Like source-code...

Johnwl Box: licensing ?

Jack Sondergaard: there are laws that will need to be followed to keep from getting sued

Lyzzy Acronym: Like..."dont do what we have done, even when you didn't copy" ?

Jack Sondergaard: programs could be sold just like any other digital content

Lyzzy Acronym: binaries..yes...

Lyzzy Acronym: and the opensource-guys? What's with them?

Jack Sondergaard: oh, you mean software patents?

Lyzzy Acronym: yep

Lyzzy Acronym: and SCO

Lyzzy Acronym: and so on

Jack Sondergaard: well lawyers will get involved with that as they always do

Johnwl Box: lol

Lyzzy Acronym: yep

Jack Sondergaard: but open source can be freely copied and modified even now

Lyzzy Acronym: bah

Lyzzy Acronym: not without the GNU

Lyzzy Acronym: and the organisation behind them

Lyzzy Acronym: and even they are having problems with fighting microsoft, sco and so on

Jack Sondergaard: yes, if you copy the code, you would need to link to the license

Lyzzy Acronym: and then microsoft sues you, because they where the first to "invent" a progress bar

Jack Sondergaard: a lot of things in software are now universal, so even MS would have a tough case on some things

Lyzzy Acronym: hm...

Lyzzy Acronym: they nearly got secure computing trough

Lyzzy Acronym: but its the same with small musicans and big labels..

Jack Sondergaard: PGP made secure computing possible for everyone

Lyzzy Acronym: that's not what I meant...

Jack Sondergaard: the big labels are like dinosaurs

Lyzzy Acronym: that's the problem

Lyzzy Acronym: but there aren't that many of them here

Lyzzy Acronym: so selling content works

Lyzzy Acronym: but look for example at sony

Lyzzy Acronym: or better: sony bgm

Lyzzy Acronym: they hijack your computer and rip a huge leak in your security

Lyzzy Acronym: and talk about how immoral it is to copy music

Jack Sondergaard: independents can compete, just like Linux is competing

Lyzzy Acronym: because it has gnu

Jack Sondergaard: it will cost Sony in reputation

Lyzzy Acronym: err GPL

Lyzzy Acronym: not too much though

Lyzzy Acronym: and what happend with microsotf spying its users?

Jack Sondergaard: Ubuntu is growing like crazy

Lyzzy Acronym: hm

Lyzzy Acronym: mhm

Lyzzy Acronym: yep

Lyzzy Acronym: But if they forbid it tomorrow that's it

Jack Sondergaard: MS will do what they do to protect their software, but there are alternatives

Jack Sondergaard: if who forbids what?

Lyzzy Acronym: but if you want to play mp3 or most dvds on linux you become a criminal

Lyzzy Acronym: They - microsoft- "proof" that Linux is using their source code....

Jack Sondergaard: why is that, because of the mp3 patent?

Lyzzy Acronym: yep

Lyzzy Acronym: And because you need keys for dvd-players

Lyzzy Acronym: which were never shipped for linux

Lyzzy Acronym: - but that doesn't matter anymore as they are cracked

Jack Sondergaard: I will have to look into that, now that I have a Linux box

Lyzzy Acronym: I just wonder, if they make the same stupid mistake with blueray

Lyzzy Acronym: because if not, you can't play them as a linux-user

Jack Sondergaard: I would think it would be in the interest of movie publishers to have people be able to watch their movies on any computer

Lyzzy Acronym: ubuntu users are still not too many compared with M$-Users

Jack Sondergaard: so I think they will be looking for ways to fix that problem

Jack Sondergaard: but which is growing fastest

Lyzzy Acronym: of all linuxes...which lack no support for media-formats yet

Lyzzy Acronym: and do not always support a given hardware

Jack Sondergaard: a lot of Windows users are sick of the problems and don't want to buy yet another new computer to run Vista, so will be open to something else, not everyone, but a lot

Lyzzy Acronym: hm..let's hope so

Lyzzy Acronym: But I don't want to keep you awake forever

Jack Sondergaard: I just installed Linux a week ago, so haven't used it a lot yet

Jack Sondergaard: I normally use a Mac

Jack Sondergaard: but I am extremely impressed with Ubuntu

Lyzzy Acronym: thats unix too..too and partly free, as far as I know

Jack Sondergaard: yes, it is Unix based

Lyzzy Acronym: when you are fed up with being patronized by the interface...

Lyzzy Acronym: of ubuntu - give Debian a try

Lyzzy Acronym: It's rock-hard to understand at the beginning - but then it's also rock-solid and simply rocks

Jack Sondergaard: I might, but Ubuntu is based on Debian, but I might try Kubuntu also

Jack Sondergaard: yes, I can see that already

Jack Sondergaard: Mac OSX is also very reliable

Lyzzy Acronym: yep

Lyzzy Acronym: But not for me

Jack Sondergaard: I almost never reboot

Lyzzy Acronym: I want to get my hands dirty at the shell

Lyzzy Acronym: no fancy clicking when I can fire scripts..

Jack Sondergaard: yes, I am learning some Unix on Mac also

Jack Sondergaard: well, I better get a little more rest, got a long day ahead

Jack Sondergaard: thanks for coming, you had a lot of good questions and comments

Lyzzy Acronym: Thanks for the lecture and the discussion too - it was very informative

Jack Sondergaard: you are welcome