Enki Repine: morning'

You: good morning

You: here for the discussion?

Enki Repine: yes

You: great

You: have you heard of Xanadu before?

Enki Repine: yes in fact i was wondering if it already exist an implementation before

Enki Repine: was thinking about such things to a new version of a website

Enki Repine: especially the stack things

You: there was a version of it done at Autodesk in the early 90's

Enki Repine: i think that xanadu model could be used over existing web

Enki Repine: and secondlife is very near the system with object you can sell/buy or exhcange

Enki Repine: i have this model in head 


You: yes, a new project has been started that uses the web

Enki Repine: anything that can be seen ?

You: hi Kipp

Kipp Patton: Morningggggg

You: it uses just a small part of the feature set of Xanadu so far

You: it's called Translit

Enki Repine: where it is ?

Enki Repine: hi kipp

You: http://transliterature.org/

Enki Repine: k

Kipp Patton: How is everyone?

You: http://www.xanadu.com.au/transquoter/

Enki Repine: yeah i'm on

You: to be really useful it will need to have a front-end program of it's own, not just running in a web browser

You: but it's something to try out

Enki Repine: mm ic

You: the Abora program is based on the early code, and shows what it is like to edit two versions of a document side by side

Sling Radius: Heelo.

Enki Repine: hi

You: hi Sling

You: Abora runs just on windows

Sling Radius: Cool...Doesn't it have ports then?

Sling Radius: other ports, even.

Sling Radius: You set this place awsomely.

You: it is written in Dolphin Smalltalk, but the author talked about porting it to Squeak

Sling Radius: Very nice.

Sling Radius: Ok

Kipp Patton: Jack is good with building

You: then there is a database inspired by zigzag, called Sentences

Kipp Patton: brb

You: it is worth looking at

Enki Repine: this one : 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentence_(linguistics) ?

Enki Repine: not really i think

You: http://lazysoft.com/

Sling Radius: Ha, it's Lisp?

You: Sentences is not a relational or object datbase, but a new design

You: database

You: where each record has only the fields it needs

Enki Repine: interresting

Enki Repine: how does it works exactly ?

You: in Python, there is a data structure called "dictionary"

You: with pairs of keys and values

Enki Repine: ok ic

You: Sentences is similar in structure

Enki Repine: was thinking about that in a web application, could solve a lot of pb

You: each record has a set of keys and values that fits the needs of that record

Enki Repine: ahhh ok

You: so if you have a million records, and one record needs a new field, you don't have to add it to the 999,999 that don't need it

Enki Repine: yup

You: zigzag is a multidimensional linked program

You: each node can have many different links in many dimensions

You: a spreadsheet is linked cells in 2 dimentions

You: and a set of linked spreadsheets is 3 dimensions, it is similar to a relational database

You: if you imagine an n-dimensional spreadsheet that has cells only where needed, that is like zigzag

You: and like Sentences

Enki Repine: hum sry linux client is unstable

You: if you use that as the method of choosing link sets in hypertext, it gives links new possibilities

You: yes, my Mac SL crashed twice this morning on quitting it

You: you could have many overlapping links

You: span to span, not just point to document

You: and choose which type of link to display

You: links could be visible between windows

You: showing the context of the link at both ends

You: when you clicked on a link, you wouln't be leaving the document you are in and traveling to a new one, but seeing both side by side

You: with the span of text of each end of the link color coded

You: there is a program that is almost like that called CosmicBook, runs on Windows

You: http://xanadu.com/cosmicbook/

You: if something like that were done in SL, you could be in two locations at once in separate windows, a big screen would help

Enki Repine: mmm i don't see how in a 3d world?

You: so you could attend two events at once

You: if you can choose to display 3 out of more dimensions, you can choose from among different sets of furniture

You: or different collections in an art gallery

Enki Repine: k

You: in a text document, you could choose from among different formats or versions of a document

You: in a movie, choose from among different edits

You: include the deleted scenes

You: in music, choose a set of tracks to mix, that is already done

You: paint programs have layers, any of which can be visible or not

You: animation programs add timelines

Enki Repine: hum ok but interface should be really intutive in this case

You: add layers and timelines to text documents, and you begin to understand the goals of Xanadu

You: the front-end can include anything, any level of detail, depending on the needs

You: the servers just send sets of content, formatting, links, etc.

Enki Repine: well , some maybe we could imagine an interface based on ajax

You: the data sets in SL are very complex and linked

Enki Repine: so remixer website of cc could be revamped

Enki Repine: yes sure

You: yes, Ajax is a possibility

You: yes, the ccmixter is an example of music that reuses music

You: and shows what music is used in a work and what other music borrows from this piece

You: if you did the same in SL, you could start construction with something that already exists, and modify it

You: your new changed object would contain a link to the original

Enki Repine: that could be a really cool idea

Enki Repine: and so rights are transmitted as well

You: yes, that has been proven to work with text in token_word

You: you could make changes to a novel, creating a new version and sell it online

You: the original would remain intact

You: and when someone reads your version, you would get paid only for what your wrote

You: the original author would get paid for what they wrote

You: and the reader would pay only for what they read, not the whole book, if they didn't finish it

Enki Repine: how do u manage offline ?

Enki Repine: offline content

Enki Repine: it works only when you are online

You: you could cache it, and cache the address too

You: since all versions are kept, you will be editing something that will still be there when you reconnect

You: links won't break, since each version of each document is given an unchanging address

Enki Repine: ok

Enki Repine: so you could imagine a p2p infrastructer behind

Enki Repine: like the freenet one

You: yes, p2p could be used for caching, and if done carefully, the servers as well

You: altme is a p2p chat program that encrypts everything, keeps chats persistantly, does file sharing, lists, shared calendar

You: I have one running on my computer now

You: and it is totally private

Enki Repine: interesting

You: only those I give access to it know about it

Enki Repine: ok

You: http://www.altme.com/

You: it's free and cross-platform

Enki Repine: yup i'm on it too bad linux client is old

Enki Repine: hum slview take a max power on a powerbook :/

You: I just bought a 250GB HD for my PC

You: I'm going to put a 100GB partition on it for Linux

You: but I use my Mac for my workhorse

Enki Repine: have a pc too , wonder if it's better to use with sl :)

Enki Repine: better card, powerbook is really out even if it was last model

You: I haven't tried it yet on a PC

Enki Repine: what is your mac ?

Sling Radius: It has days...Sometimes the client lag (not connections) is intolerable....Other days (like today) it runs smoothly.

You: Mini, 1.42 GHz, 1 GB RAM

Enki Repine: ok

Enki Repine: have 1.67 g4 with 1gb of ram

Sling Radius: That was because of the windows client question.

You: I want to get a dual dual core

Enki Repine: yah me too

You: with at least 4GB RAM

Enki Repine: hmmm just thinking, wonder if rss or atom could be used to implement some kind of xanadu model ?

You: I don't know, I haven't thought about that yet

Enki Repine: you can make stacks of content with it

Enki Repine: then maybe add rights in

Enki Repine: so people could exchange feeds

Enki Repine: feeds are just descriptions with links to content`

You: yes, it does notify of new versions

Enki Repine: yup

You: I will have to look into that some more

Enki Repine: heh

You: right now I am listening to a podcast of a college course in operating systems

You: to understand programming, it helps to know your OS very well

Enki Repine: sure

You: the only OS I ever studied in some depth was the Amiga, so I need to get up to date in that area

You: I have been trying to learn Python

Enki Repine: that's why I would prefer to use linux if I can

Enki Repine: hum I love python

You: the new projects related to Xanadu are mostly python

Enki Repine: especially since i discovered django framework for web

You: yes, the Amiga was very Unix like in some ways

You: yes, django is one thing I want learn once I get a good working knowledge of Python

You: the data structures of python seem well suited to Xanadu

Enki Repine: or any project like it yes

You: Jeff Rush is working on a Xanadu server in Python running in Linux

Enki Repine: k

You: https://www.taupro.com/pubsvn/Projects/Xanalogica/

Enki Repine: that's too bad there aren't any well suited source repository for xanadu project

Enki Repine: oh ok

Enki Repine: didn't know this one

You: yes, that is a problem, it needs to be in Sourceforge or something like that

Enki Repine: yes

Enki Repine: google code ?

You: what about google code?

Sling Radius: Why it needs to be in SF?

Sling Radius: Easier?

Enki Repine: to follow bugs an such things

Sling Radius: Ha, ok.

You: and versioning, shared public code location

Enki Repine: yes

Sling Radius: Huhum....I thought you wore impliciting a requirement.

You: I started reading about Subversion, but I need more language basics first

You: not sure what you mean Sling

Enki Repine: brb

You: lately I have been reading about Compendium

Sling Radius: I thought you were impliciting that the project would require an infrastructure like SF.net to be developed in....It confused me. Nevermind.

Sling Radius: *would

You: it is a mindmapping program with many of the same goals as Xanadu, showing all points of view of an issue

Sling Radius: Nice.

You: http://cognexus.org/id66.htm

You: I checked the book out from the college library about it

You: It's a very useful tool for meetings where there is a complex problem and cultural diversity

Sling Radius: As I've told in a prior session, sometimes I need something similar to that to work the several topics of the problem. It would really bring performance to what someone could be working on. Especially is it's more complex then regular ones.

You: yes, the coding of Xanadu itself is a complex problem

Sling Radius: Ho, yeah...Exactly what I was thinking on.

You: I have started a few diagrams in it relating to Xanadu

Enki Repine: will u put them on your website ?

You: yes

You: this week

Enki Repine: cool

Sling Radius: Does Xanadu only works in X?

Sling Radius: MACX, even.

You: Compendium is a bit different than other mindmappers I have used, so the book is helping me to understand it

You: X?

You: do you mean X Windows or Max OSX?

Sling Radius: Yeah....I can run OS8. something in Basilisk...Or X in PearPC. But PearPC is way too slow....Or it trying to run X, instead.

Sling Radius: Mac OSX.

You: the original Xanadu code was on some kind of Unix machine

You: I'm not sure it runs on anything now, but Roger Gregory has it running with some of it being redone in Python

You: he tried to get it going on my Mac, but had problems with C pointers because of word length differences

Sling Radius: Hmmmmm...

Enki Repine: see you next all

You: OK bye

Sling Radius: Bye Enki...Nice to meet you. :)

You: I better get one more hour of sleep before work too

You: hi Cacau

Sling Radius: You'rte going to post this session?...I missed the beginning.

Sling Radius: Hi.

Cacau Moo: colicnça como se centa???

You: yes

Sling Radius: Click con la destra click Y escolhe sentar.

You: after I cut out the extranious stuff

Cacau Moo: pode ser no lugar de ontem

Cacau Moo: ?????

Sling Radius: hehe Yup, no need to keep it in there...Altho it would show some informality.

You: I might leave in a little

Sling Radius: Ontem, Cacau?...Non comprendo....Ayer?