Enki Repine: morning'
You: good morning
You: here for the discussion?
Enki Repine: yes
You: have you heard of Xanadu before?
Enki Repine: yes in fact i was wondering if it already exist an implementation before
Enki Repine: was thinking about such things to a new version of a website
Enki Repine: especially the stack things
You: there was a version of it done at Autodesk in the early 90's
Enki Repine: i think that xanadu model could be used over existing web
Enki Repine: and secondlife is very near the system with object you can sell/buy or exhcange
Enki Repine: i have this model in head
You: yes, a new project has been started that uses the web
Enki Repine: anything that can be seen ?
You: hi Kipp
Kipp Patton: Morningggggg
You: it uses just a small part of the feature set of Xanadu so far
You: it's called Translit
Enki Repine: where it is ?
Enki Repine: hi kipp
Enki Repine: k
Kipp Patton: How is everyone?
Enki Repine: yeah i'm on
You: to be really useful it will need to have a front-end program of it's own, not just running in a web browser
You: but it's something to try out
Enki Repine: mm ic
You: the Abora program is based on the early code, and shows what it is like to edit two versions of a document side by side
Sling Radius: Heelo.
Enki Repine: hi
You: hi Sling
You: Abora runs just on windows
Sling Radius: Cool...Doesn't it have ports then?
Sling Radius: other ports, even.
Sling Radius: You set this place awsomely.
You: it is written in Dolphin Smalltalk, but the author talked about porting it to Squeak
Sling Radius: Very nice.
Sling Radius: Ok
Kipp Patton: Jack is good with building
You: then there is a database inspired by zigzag, called Sentences
Kipp Patton: brb
You: it is worth looking at
Enki Repine: this one :
Enki Repine: not really i think
Sling Radius: Ha, it's Lisp?
You: Sentences is not a relational or object datbase, but a new design
You: where each record has only the fields it needs
Enki Repine: interresting
Enki Repine: how does it works exactly ?
You: in Python, there is a data structure called "dictionary"
You: with pairs of keys and values
Enki Repine: ok ic
You: Sentences is similar in structure
Enki Repine: was thinking about that in a web application, could solve a lot of pb
You: each record has a set of keys and values that fits the needs of that record
Enki Repine: ahhh ok
You: so if you have a million records, and one record needs a new field, you don't have to add it to the 999,999 that don't need it
Enki Repine: yup
You: zigzag is a multidimensional linked program
You: each node can have many different links in many dimensions
You: a spreadsheet is linked cells in 2 dimentions
You: and a set of linked spreadsheets is 3 dimensions, it is similar to a relational database
You: if you imagine an n-dimensional spreadsheet that has cells only where needed, that is like zigzag
You: and like Sentences
Enki Repine: hum sry linux client is unstable
You: if you use that as the method of choosing link sets in hypertext, it gives links new possibilities
You: yes, my Mac SL crashed twice this morning on quitting it
You: you could have many overlapping links
You: span to span, not just point to document
You: and choose which type of link to display
You: links could be visible between windows
You: showing the context of the link at both ends
You: when you clicked on a link, you wouln't be leaving the document you are in and traveling to a new one, but seeing both side by side
You: with the span of text of each end of the link color coded
You: there is a program that is almost like that called CosmicBook, runs on Windows
You: if something like that were done in SL, you could be in two locations at once in separate windows, a big screen would help
Enki Repine: mmm i don't see how in a 3d world?
You: so you could attend two events at once
You: if you can choose to display 3 out of more dimensions, you can choose from among different sets of furniture
You: or different collections in an art gallery
Enki Repine: k
You: in a text document, you could choose from among different formats or versions of a document
You: in a movie, choose from among different edits
You: include the deleted scenes
You: in music, choose a set of tracks to mix, that is already done
You: paint programs have layers, any of which can be visible or not
You: animation programs add timelines
Enki Repine: hum ok but interface should be really intutive in this case
You: add layers and timelines to text documents, and you begin to understand the goals of Xanadu
You: the front-end can include anything, any level of detail, depending on the needs
You: the servers just send sets of content, formatting, links, etc.
Enki Repine: well , some maybe we could imagine an interface based on ajax
You: the data sets in SL are very complex and linked
Enki Repine: so remixer website of cc could be revamped
Enki Repine: yes sure
You: yes, Ajax is a possibility
You: yes, the ccmixter is an example of music that reuses music
You: and shows what music is used in a work and what other music borrows from this piece
You: if you did the same in SL, you could start construction with something that already exists, and modify it
You: your new changed object would contain a link to the original
Enki Repine: that could be a really cool idea
Enki Repine: and so rights are transmitted as well
You: yes, that has been proven to work with text in token_word
You: you could make changes to a novel, creating a new version and sell it online
You: the original would remain intact
You: and when someone reads your version, you would get paid only for what your wrote
You: the original author would get paid for what they wrote
You: and the reader would pay only for what they read, not the whole book, if they didn't finish it
Enki Repine: how do u manage offline ?
Enki Repine: offline content
Enki Repine: it works only when you are online
You: you could cache it, and cache the address too
You: since all versions are kept, you will be editing something that will still be there when you reconnect
You: links won't break, since each version of each document is given an unchanging address
Enki Repine: ok
Enki Repine: so you could imagine a p2p infrastructer behind
Enki Repine: like the freenet one
You: yes, p2p could be used for caching, and if done carefully, the servers as well
You: altme is a p2p chat program that encrypts everything, keeps chats persistantly, does file sharing, lists, shared calendar
You: I have one running on my computer now
You: and it is totally private
Enki Repine: interesting
You: only those I give access to it know about it
Enki Repine: ok
You: it's free and cross-platform
Enki Repine: yup i'm on it too bad linux client is old
Enki Repine: hum slview take a max power on a powerbook :/
You: I just bought a 250GB HD for my PC
You: I'm going to put a 100GB partition on it for Linux
You: but I use my Mac for my workhorse
Enki Repine: have a pc too , wonder if it's better to use with sl :)
Enki Repine: better card, powerbook is really out even if it was last model
You: I haven't tried it yet on a PC
Enki Repine: what is your mac ?
Sling Radius: It has days...Sometimes the client lag (not connections) is intolerable....Other days (like today) it runs smoothly.
You: Mini, 1.42 GHz, 1 GB RAM
Enki Repine: ok
Enki Repine: have 1.67 g4 with 1gb of ram
Sling Radius: That was because of the windows client question.
You: I want to get a dual dual core
Enki Repine: yah me too
You: with at least 4GB RAM
Enki Repine: hmmm just thinking, wonder if rss or atom could be used to implement some kind of xanadu model ?
You: I don't know, I haven't thought about that yet
Enki Repine: you can make stacks of content with it
Enki Repine: then maybe add rights in
Enki Repine: so people could exchange feeds
Enki Repine: feeds are just descriptions with links to content`
You: yes, it does notify of new versions
Enki Repine: yup
You: I will have to look into that some more
Enki Repine: heh
You: right now I am listening to a podcast of a college course in operating systems
You: to understand programming, it helps to know your OS very well
Enki Repine: sure
You: the only OS I ever studied in some depth was the Amiga, so I need to get up to date in that area
You: I have been trying to learn Python
Enki Repine: that's why I would prefer to use linux if I can
Enki Repine: hum I love python
You: the new projects related to Xanadu are mostly python
Enki Repine: especially since i discovered django framework for web
You: yes, the Amiga was very Unix like in some ways
You: yes, django is one thing I want learn once I get a good working knowledge of Python
You: the data structures of python seem well suited to Xanadu
Enki Repine: or any project like it yes
You: Jeff Rush is working on a Xanadu server in Python running in Linux
Enki Repine: k
Enki Repine: that's too bad there aren't any well suited source repository for xanadu project
Enki Repine: oh ok
Enki Repine: didn't know this one
You: yes, that is a problem, it needs to be in Sourceforge or something like that
Enki Repine: yes
Enki Repine: google code ?
You: what about google code?
Sling Radius: Why it needs to be in SF?
Sling Radius: Easier?
Enki Repine: to follow bugs an such things
Sling Radius: Ha, ok.
You: and versioning, shared public code location
Enki Repine: yes
Sling Radius: Huhum....I thought you wore impliciting a requirement.
You: I started reading about Subversion, but I need more language basics first
You: not sure what you mean Sling
Enki Repine: brb
You: lately I have been reading about Compendium
Sling Radius: I thought you were impliciting that the project would require an infrastructure like SF.net to be developed in....It confused me. Nevermind.
Sling Radius: *would
You: it is a mindmapping program with many of the same goals as Xanadu, showing all points of view of an issue
Sling Radius: Nice.
You: I checked the book out from the college library about it
You: It's a very useful tool for meetings where there is a complex problem and cultural diversity
Sling Radius: As I've told in a prior session, sometimes I need something similar to that to work the several topics of the problem. It would really bring performance to what someone could be working on. Especially is it's more complex then regular ones.
You: yes, the coding of Xanadu itself is a complex problem
Sling Radius: Ho, yeah...Exactly what I was thinking on.
You: I have started a few diagrams in it relating to Xanadu
Enki Repine: will u put them on your website ?
You: this week
Enki Repine: cool
Sling Radius: Does Xanadu only works in X?
Sling Radius: MACX, even.
You: Compendium is a bit different than other mindmappers I have used, so the book is helping me to understand it
You: do you mean X Windows or Max OSX?
Sling Radius: Yeah....I can run OS8. something in Basilisk...Or X in PearPC. But PearPC is way too slow....Or it trying to run X, instead.
Sling Radius: Mac OSX.
You: the original Xanadu code was on some kind of Unix machine
You: I'm not sure it runs on anything now, but Roger Gregory has it running with some of it being redone in Python
You: he tried to get it going on my Mac, but had problems with C pointers because of word length differences
Sling Radius: Hmmmmm...
Enki Repine: see you next all
You: OK bye
Sling Radius: Bye Enki...Nice to meet you. :)
You: I better get one more hour of sleep before work too
You: hi Cacau
Sling Radius: You'rte going to post this session?...I missed the beginning.
Sling Radius: Hi.
Cacau Moo: colicnça como se centa???
Sling Radius: Click con la destra click Y escolhe sentar.
You: after I cut out the extranious stuff
Cacau Moo: pode ser no lugar de ontem
Cacau Moo: ?????
Sling Radius: hehe Yup, no need to keep it in there...Altho it would show some informality.
You: I might leave in a little
Sling Radius: Ontem, Cacau?...Non comprendo....Ayer?